can't keep fish alive -- frustrated

[del_rn]

I have a 70 gallon tank with a freedom all in one filtration/skimmer system that is large enough to do a 300 gallon tank. I have crushed coral, live sand, and 36 lbs of live rock. This tank has been up and running for about 3 months. I have a damsel fish and that is all that is left. I have lost other damsels, 2 wrasses, 4 clowns, a yellow tang. I have several scarlet hermit crabs and blue hermit crabs. I have 3 curly q anemones and a bulb tip anemone and red star fish, snails, peppermint shrimp and these are all doing great without any problems. They look wonderful My ph is where is should be, my nitrites are 0, salinity is 1.023-1.024, my amonnia is 0, my nitrates are 40 and I am working to bring that down. I also have 3 emarld crabs. I can't figure out what is going wrong. I did introduce the tang and the wrasses too close together however I have slowed down and took more time. They all ate good. I lost 2 clowns this morning that I had only had for 4 days, I did buy them at a local fish store but they were acting normally last night and first thing this morning and then a couple of hours later one was being ate by the emerald crab and the other one was floating upside and very pale. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am about ready to tear it down.

 

[beth]

Nitrates are really too high, and you will forever be struggling with nitrates due to the crushed coral you are using. The particle size of crushed coral is way too large, resulting in detritus getting "trapped" and not breaking down in your substrate for adequate export from the system. And since you have sharp edged crushed coral, natural detritivores, such as worms, snails, etc. that might help out with the nitrogen cycle, can't because they can't survive in a substrate that is like walking through glass shards to them.
High nitrates is an indication that your system is no adequately exporting waste. Crushed coral systems are notorious for this effect, and is strongly discouraged.

 

[del_rn]

How can I fix it? Can I safely take out the crushed coral and replace with sand without killing what is present in the tank?

 

[beth]

You will have to start over setting up the tank. It sounds daunting, but it can be done. Remove live rock and live animals to rubbermaid containers, you'll then remove and discard the crushed coral. You will have to replace the sandbed with sand, preferable at least 50% live sand on top, since you still have live animals to take care of and you can't allow the system to cycle again. The live sand will kick start your bio-filter from the start, and, will hopefully result in no cycle for your system.
Once the sand is in, you'll replace the LR and a good part of the water, and start up the powerheads to get water circulation going. It will look like a dust storm but will slowly settle over the next 24 hours. Once the sand settles, take water readings for 3 days. If you register zero ammonia and nitrites, you can start adding your animals back into the system. It will be a lot of work and money for new sand. But, in my view, your system will be forever handicapped with crushed coral. I don't understand why fish stores still sell this.
Just to let you know, you also attempted to add too many animals way too quickly. A new system must be allowed time to gradually build up its bio-filter. Also, damsels are hellions, and are not something you want in your tank....unless you like warring fish. If you do what I suggest, take this opportunity to get the damsels out of your tank permanently. Way too many fish, way too fast. Tangs, most would say, are not appropriate for your size tank.
What pumps do you have going in your system?
Let me recommend the "Conscientious Marine Aquarist" to you by Bob Fenner. Excellent, entertaining resource for new aquarists with a lot of info, help and great pictures.

 

[del_rn]

Thanks for the information. I wish I would have learned that before now. I understand that it is a new tank and that it takes time. I will work on taking out the crushed coral and replacing it with sand.

 

[spiderwoman]

We are going to do a similar thing next week and luckily I found an inexpensive 75g RR to move to and can have the 55 running at the same time as the 75 is being setup. We have 40lb of CC and only 20lb of LS currently in the tank but double the amount of LR. You may want to at least add double the amount of LR you currently have to add more biological filtration to your system. We've been lucky to have very low nitrate level (right now 0-2), but it's only a matter of time when it jumps higher.
Good luck!

 

[atlantis16]

Originally Posted by SpiderWoman
http:///forum/post/2516588
We are going to do a similar thing next week and luckily I found an inexpensive 75g RR to move to and can have the 55 running at the same time as the 75 is being setup. We have 40lb of CC and only 20lb of LS currently in the tank but double the amount of LR. You may want to at least add double the amount of LR you currently have to add more biological filtration to your system. We've been lucky to have very low nitrate level (right now 0-2), but it's only a matter of time when it jumps higher.
Good luck!
good luck! you seem motivated,so you will eventually succeed!

 

[beth]

If you are going to make this transfer, the best thing to do is not add LR right now.

 

[spiderwoman]

Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2516881
If you are going to make this transfer, the best thing to do is not add LR right now.
Good point. Only use the LR you have now and then once you've had the new environment running for a few weeks you may want to add more LR little by little. The LR has to be cured first.

 

[hypertek99]

Try to set up a refugium and put some chaeto in it. It will soak up the nitrates.

 

[spiderwoman]

I wonder if our success with near to no nitrates with CC substrate is the Fluidized Sand Bed filter we have in place. It acts almost like a refugium.

 

[del_rn]

I know several people that have cc and sand as substrate and they don't have any problems. Can I just thin out the amount of coral and add more sand without taking everything out of my tank. If I do it slowly won't it prevent it from cycling again? I don't want to loose what I have still. Do you really think that the nitrates is what keeps killing my fish? They all lasted about 10 days before they died except for these last two clown they only made it 4 days. I just don't get it they showed no signs of illness. I am baffled. Can I keep the cc for now and just add more cured live rock will that help? And add more movement to the water to keep it stirred up? More cleaners?

 

[keith burn]

Sorry imo no,more l/r will not help,will help with biological filtration in your tank but it will not help with the cc trbl.
Imo the best thing now is to remove the cc but the refugium with chaeto will help now to soak up the nitrates.
You can try this get a come p glass that will fit in your tank to the top and move the l/r in 1/4 of the tank now put in the p glass and use a gravel vacuum with a 4in w/c or intell cc is clean and then after new water is in replace the c/c with l/s.Do this intell all c/c is out.keep the p glass in the tank like 24h. do this ever 2 weeks.But a fuge needs to be up 1st imo.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by del_rn
http:///forum/post/2517066
I know several people that have cc and sand as substrate and they don't have any problems. Can I just thin out the amount of coral and add more sand without taking everything out of my tank. If I do it slowly won't it prevent it from cycling again? I don't want to loose what I have still. Do you really think that the nitrates is what keeps killing my fish? They all lasted about 10 days before they died except for these last two clown they only made it 4 days. I just don't get it they showed no signs of illness. I am baffled. Can I keep the cc for now and just add more cured live rock will that help? And add more movement to the water to keep it stirred up? More cleaners?
Don't add more rock. Live rock adds biological filtration to break down ammonia and nitrite. You are not having a problem with that. The problem is with nitrates. Your crushed coral is a trap for detritus. It just sits there. If you have sand then you can get detrivores. They consume the detritus before it breaks down into nitrates. Start scooping out the cc. Only scoop a few cups per night. You do not want to remove it all at once. Let me ask you. Do you have a spare tank? You only have one damsel and some inverts, correct? You can add some of the rock, the fish and the inverts into another tank and over-haul this tank. It sounds drastic, but it will be quicker and the new tank will not cycle with rock in there. You can set it up ahead of time. After you remove the cc you can do a large water change, add sand, and the rest of your rock.

 

[sepulatian]

Do you run carbon in the tank? How close are the anemones to each other? They can have "chemical ware-fare" with each other and let off toxins that would certainly kill fish. The crushed coral is a problem for nitrates. If you did not have anemones then I would suggest that you add some rock and the one fish, along with the inverts, into a tub or another tank and re-do the display with sand. You will have to take small portions of the cc out daily, until it is gone. You cannot remove a lot at once because there is more nitrate trapped in the CC, waiting to be released.