Can't keep new fish alive - What am I doing wrong???

[jmadden93]

Hi All,
I'm trying to figure out why I have such poor success keeping new fish alive. My knowledge level is decent, but there's plenty I don't know and I'm always trying to learn more. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong!
I have a 125gal FOWLR tank that's been running for about 5 years (only 4 med/small fish the last 2 years so not much bio load). For water changes I use water from my 5 stage RO/DI filter and mix with Instant ocean salt for about a day before using. The LFS says my water is good, and I follow slow acclimation process of replacing a small amount of LFS bag water with water from my tank over the course of 1-1.5hrs.
This last time around I used an 20gal isolation tank (with a big skimmer, live rock, & 50% from my established tank) and still couldn't keep a few fish alive. I had two butterflys (Auriga & Copperband) and two dwarf angels (pygmy & Tibicen). Only the pygmy is still alive. They all ate well except the copperband. The copperband got some disease where he had cotton like growths on him, and the Auriga got open wounds on his body a week later (pics below). I treated the 20gal tank with API Furan-2 with no luck (fish died before full treatment could be applied). The pygmy is alive and well. I have a wide variety of food that i try to coat with Seachem Garlic Guard to get the fish to eat. I usually give them a mix of plankton, bloodworms, mysis, krill, brine, fish eggs then the usual flakes and pellet.
Should I just always use copper in my isolation tank just to kill off any diseases with new fish? My LFS said if I really wanted to I could put copper in my 125g tank but that everything but the fish would die. I'm not sure I want that route just yet (seems like a last resort).
My equipment:
Tons of live rock & crushed coral
Big Sump with bioballs & more live rock in sump
Big Protein Skimmer
UV Sterilizer
3 Hydor Koralia 1 Powerheads
72" Coralive CF Lighting with 12k bulbs
RedSea Merlin 120 Fluidized bio chem filter (got this from a friend recently and haven't used it yet. Not exactly sure what it does)

 

[mr. limpid]

You need to post your water prams. You all so need to get that butterfly into a hospital tank, and treat for bacteria infection. Never add copper to DT (long exposure to copper will damage organs), some fish do not do well with copper. Also copper is for external parasite will not help your butterfly. Do you QT new arrivals? Bio balls need to be rinsed every year, I do mine in thirds. Blood worms are for fresh water fish, I do not recommend them for salt water fish, try adding Ocean Nutrition Angel/butterfly formula to your list (it contains sponge). Brian shrimp is like feeding potato chips not to health for them.Not understanding your water change procedure, are you matching temp, and PH of DT? Garlic guard is a waste of money use fresh garlic, cheaper and better for them. Copper bands are picky fish does better in mixed reef set up. Your Auriga is a tough butterfly he should live a long and happy life if you treat him soon.

 

[dustintx]

We need parameters. Also,be sure not to spray chemicals around tank,will,kill most everything in tank.

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmadden93 http:///t/390798/cant-keep-new-fish-alive-what-am-i-doing-wrong#post_3462510
Hi All,
I'm trying to figure out why I have such poor success keeping new fish alive. My knowledge level is decent, but there's plenty I don't know and I'm always trying to learn more. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong!
I have a 125gal FOWLR tank that's been running for about 5 years (only 4 med/small fish the last 2 years so not much bio load). For water changes I use water from my 5 stage RO/DI filter and mix with Instant ocean salt for about a day before using. The LFS says my water is good, and I follow slow acclimation process of replacing a small amount of LFS bag water with water from my tank over the course of 1-1.5hrs. Firstly, stop having your LFS test your water. Do it yourself. Some LFS's will be honest with you about your water parameters, but most will tell you that your water looks great so you buy more fish/corals or they'll tell you it looks terrible and sell you some garbage that claims to fix everything.
How old are your filters in your RO unit?
What are you keeping your salinity at? What are you using to test salinity?
Are you matching the temperature of your DT with the temperature of the newly mixed water?
This last time around I used an 20gal isolation tank (with a big skimmer, live rock, & 50% from my established tank) and still couldn't keep a few fish alive. Live rock does not belong in an isolation, AKA Quarantine Tank (QT). I had two butterflys (Auriga & Copperband) and two dwarf angels (pygmy & Tibicen). Only the pygmy is still alive. Dwarf angels will fight with each other, most likely one killed the other, especially in a 20G tank. I've successfully kept multiple dwarfs, in large setups, I wouldn't dare do it in anything smaller than a 125, let alone a 20G tank with minimal rock work. They all ate well except the copperband. The copperband got some disease where he had cotton like growths on him (sounds like Lymphocytis, which should not have killed it, but Copperband Butterflies are difficult fish to keep), and the Auriga got open wounds on his body a week later (pics below) Looks like a bacterial infection and probably is going to need treatment. I treated the 20gal tank with API Furan-2 with no luck (fish died before full treatment could be applied). The pygmy is alive and well. I have a wide variety of food that i try to coat with Seachem Garlic Guard to get the fish to eat. I usually give them a mix of plankton, bloodworms, mysis, krill, brine, fish eggs then the usual flakes and pellet. Not really the best diet, especially with a fish that is sick (the Auriga Butterfly). You need to get an Angel Butterfly mix. I really like Emerald Entree as well as the Ocean Nutrition that Mr. Limpid suggested. Also, FEED THEM ALGAE SHEETS. I prefer to give multiple varieties, rather than just Nori. I like Julian Sprung's algae sheets and Ocean Nutritions algae sheets. Bloodworms have no place with your fish and don't need to be fed and those as well as the brine shrimp are not offering much nutrition. Most pellet and flake food is also not very nutritious and usually just pollutes the water. I would also look into soaking the food in fresh garlic AND a vitamin supplement such as Selcon or VitaChem.
Should I just always use copper in my isolation tank just to kill off any diseases with new fish? I consider copper as a last resort. It can be very stressful to a fish. I would NOT use copper right now with that bacterial infection on the butterfly. Hypo salinity and dosing with something like Melafix would be far safer. Also, get the live rock out of the tank before treating with anything. Add PVC/fake plants instead. My LFS said if I really wanted to I could put copper in my 125g tank but that everything but the fish would die. I'm not sure I want that route just yet (seems like a last resort). Really bad idea, it kills off everything, including your beneficial filtration and will essentially leave your live rock dead and ineffective. Seeing as how this is the information that your LFS is giving you, I'm going to make the assumption that they're not very knowledgeable and you probably should stop listening to them. If this is the same place that these fish that you're having issues with came from, all the more reason to find somewhere else to shop.
My equipment:
Tons of live rock & crushed coral An idea of how much would be better
Big Sump with bioballs & more live rock in sump Again, a size would be more helpful. How often do you clean the bioballs and live rock? I'm not a fan of live rock in the sump, it tends to collect a lot of detritus.
Big Protein Skimmer Size and brand would be helpful
UV Sterilizer Size and brand?
3 Hydor Koralia 1 Powerheads This doesn't sound like very much for a 125 tank
72" Coralive CF Lighting with 12k bulbs
RedSea Merlin 120 Fluidized bio chem filter (got this from a friend recently and haven't used it yet. Not exactly sure what it does) Never used one and don't know too much about them.


/AAAAAAAADqQ/U-HzmPTrj1M/s800/IMAG0237.jpg">

 

[njbillyv]

So you dumped two dwarf angles and two butterflys into a 20 gallon QT tank? Did I read that right?
Does your tank now contain one single pygmy anglefish?
Any CUC?
Notwithstanding the solid advice above (read it carefully, good stuff)...
I'd bet your salinity or nitrates are out of whack plus you're adding difficult fish, but we'll see. So first find out what your salinity is, go to two different LFS's and have it checked along with everything else (pick up some Chemi-Pure and some 100 micron filter pads while you're there).
Then do a fairly large water change, like 20%, if your salinity is off based on what you learned at the LFSs you can begin slowly adjusting it here, make sure temp is the same as the DT.
Rinse the bioballs in salt water untill all the debris is off them, this may take several rinses. Put 2/3 back.
I you have a sponge in your sump, rinse it in salt water until it's clean. Put it back in.
Clean off the live rock in the sump in salt water and throw it into the tank.
Do not stir up your sand bed while you're doing this.
Put the 100 micron filter pad in the sump.
Throw the Chemi-Pure in the sump after you rinse it off really well.
Let it run for a day and test everything yourself, and have the LFS test it and post your results.
If you go step by step you'll be fine in no time, good luck!

 

[btldreef]

Just a side note on bio balls, DO NOT WASH THEM ALL AT ONCE! You'll be getting rid of too much biological filtration at once and it can cause more harm than good. I recommend rinsing them 1/3 at a time. over a few days.

 

[njbillyv]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///t/390798/cant-keep-new-fish-alive-what-am-i-doing-wrong#post_3464437
Just a side note on bio balls, DO NOT WASH THEM ALL AT ONCE! You'll be getting rid of too much biological filtration at once and it can cause more harm than good. I recommend rinsing them 1/3 at a time. over a few days.
Really, if you rinse them in a bucket of good salt water to remover the debris you'll mess with the biological filtration too? I thought that was kinda standard practice.

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBillyV http:///t/390798/cant-keep-new-fish-alive-what-am-i-doing-wrong#post_3464440
Really, if you rinse them in a bucket of good salt water to remover the debris you'll mess with the biological filtration too? I thought that was kinda standard practice.
The whole point of the bio balls is to allow somewhere for beneficial bacteria to colonize. The problem is that they also collect a lot of detritus, etc. If you wash them all at once, you run the risk of washing away too much beneficial bacteria and setting your tank into cycle mode again.

 

[njbillyv]

I understand what you're saying, but in this case I bet they're really dirty, like little nitrate factories, and he's got almost no bioload in his tank anyway. If he leaves 3/4 of them in, unwashed, just oozing nitrate, it's going to take forever to get his levels good. Don't you think, given this specific situation, the benefit of getting rid of all the detritus now outweighs possibly rinsing away some good bacteria?

 

[btldreef]

I understand what you're saying, but in this case I bet they're really dirty, like little nitrate factories, and he's got almost no bioload in his tank anyway. If he leaves 3/4 of them in, unwashed, just oozing nitrate, it's going to take forever to get his levels good. Don't you think, given this specific situation, the benefit of getting rid of all the detritus now outweighs possibly rinsing away some good bacteria?


No, fish can handle nitrates, however they can't handle ammonia, which is what could spike if there is not enough beneficial bacteria.
I'm under the impression that the bio balls are on the DT, and the fish are in a separate QT