Can't keep sand clean!!!!

[hiptang]

Hello everyone,
I am having a problem with keeping my sand bed clean. I know there are many threads on this but i couldn't find something that i have not tried. So i was wanting to see what kind of replys i could get. The problem is that my sand bed will get a layer of algea and crap that will cover it and it will do this in a matter of days. the algea speads to the glass too.
I have a cleaning crew that consist of:
20 scarlet hermits
25 blue leg hermits
20 turbo snails
10 nasssarius snails
8 emerald crabs
1 sally lighfoot crab
1 coral banded shrimp
1 diamond goby
The tank is a 75g. I have a aqua remora skimmer, canister filter(media changed often), uv sterilizer, and 2 power heads. I have mh lighting which i have been turning off for a few hours during the day but it has not helped any. The problem is basically the sand bed as the glass the snails pretty much take care of.
Any help would be appreciated as this is getting old. The only way i have found that i can keep it clean is by scraping off the top layer, but this takes sand with it and i would have to buy sand all the time. Also i have tried to stir the top layer up a little(as suggested in other post) but all this does is make clumps of crap in the bed.
Thanks for looking.

 

[salty2275]

bump

 

[dejaco]

Try repositioning powerheads to get more current movement lower.
Also get some cerith and narsissus snails (they really move about "in" the sand bed.
And try cutting down on your feeding, algae needs nutrients to groow, it's coming
from somewhere and usually that is the case.

 

[supalupa]

I would try cutting lights down to 8 hrs a day. Also I wouldn't touch the sand bed. I have stopped touching my sandbed even during water changes and have not had any algae at all whatsoever on my sand. When you disturb algae it gets into the water and multiplies.(algae bloom). I have a large naso who I feed heavily and even this hasn't caused any algae to grow on my sand. I had an outbreak of cyano on my sand bed about a month ago that was so bad you couldn't see the sand. It was caused by two things, adding too much new live rock too fast and light bulbs that were old and more towards the yellow side. I got new bulbs, cut lighting time in half from 12 to 6 hrs and let my skimmer do it's job until the rock was fully cured. This completely erraticated all the algae. I now only run my lights for 8 hrs. a day.

 

[dburr]

What color is the stuff on your bed? Is it algae or cyno?(it sounds like cyno)
I also say PH's redirected would be best.
When I had sand a bristle tooth did a great job keeping it clean.

 

[gtiguy]

I was having the same problem with diatoms on my sand (light brown ones) and i got a sand sifter star, with 2-2spot gobies, and a cleaner shrimp and so far so good...

 

[hiptang]

Thanks for all the replys. I will try moving my power heads, watch how much i feed, and cut the light even more. Hopefully this will help to stop the growing and then the cleaners can wipe it out.

 

[murph]

I was having the same problem and for the past six months have gone to great lengths to combat dirty sand bed syndrome as I call it.
My guess is whats making your sand bed appear drab and dirty is cyano. Cyano is not always purple in color and in my case was miss identified in my DT. What was in my fuge was unmistakably cyano and I thought I had it beat on several occasions declaring victory only to have it rear its ugly slimy head once again.
My testing indicated no nutrient source and I rearranged circulation on many occasions and beefed up my clean up crew also. The likely source of my problem was starting the tank in July with treated tap water but even when every thing is set up in a optimal fashion cyano is still often a problem with new systems
On each trip to the LFS in town I trust the most to buy things to combat the cyano like, RO/DI system, flow deflectors, power heads, new bulbs etc. He always asked "have you tried ultralifes red slime remover". Each time he suggested this I asked the usual questions. Is it going to kill my bio filtration? Is it going to upset my corals? Will it work for a week only to have the problem reappear? The answers were always no, but I still resisted using the product. On my last trip I finally asked "have you ever used it in one of your own systems?" When he answered yes I gave in and tried the stuff.
There is no question that the stuff works when used as directed. There was no ill effects to my corals or other livestock and believe me my Xenia would have let me know. My Xenia actually has a more adverse reaction to a large water change than when I introduced this product to the tank. Also what was on my sand bed in my DT that I thought was diatom or other forms of algae was in fact cyano and has now disappeared leaving a bright white sand bed.
Some of the more conservative types around here will likely jump in with some sort of hear say horror story related to the use of this or similar product, but if you do a search within the form for "red slime remover" you will see that well over 90 percent of the people who have used this product have had no problems with it.
Cyano is one of the oldest life forms on earth and a true survivor. IMO once established in a system due to some sort of set up mistake or poor husbandry it can be nearly impossible to completely eradicate
If you have eliminated all other causes for cyano and still cant beat it I would have no problems suggesting the use of this product. Careful husbandry and proper flow in the system there after should prevent its return.

 

[wax32]

I have used chemi-clean (a similar product) and it works too. If you don't correct whatever is causing the cyano, it will eventually come back. A small amount of cyano in your tank is probably pretty normal and won't hurt anything. I have a little in my tank right now, but I don't plan to retreat anytime soon. I am taking a wait and see approach.

 

[jester805]

Originally Posted by HipTang
Thanks for all the replys. I will try moving my power heads, watch how much i feed, and cut the light even more. Hopefully this will help to stop the growing and then the cleaners can wipe it out.
I had an outbreak of cyano several months ago. I cut the length of time my lights were on from 10 hours to 6. After 2 days it was completely gone. You might consider adding another powerhead too. I have 4 in my 75 gallon.

 

[helipilot]

I too have been battling Cyano for months. I have tried everything suggested to me. I have a 30 gal reef with 25 lbs of lr, several lps, a pair of perc's and a clown cobie, a good clean up crew, good lights, water tests are great. I have used chemi-clean several times, cut down on feedings etc. It just keeps coming back. Someone on one of these forums said it was part of my tank maturing. It is just 6 mo. old. Any suggestions? What is the proper way to use chemi-clean. I have been putting in the right amount, waiting two days with the filter and skimmer off, then re-treating for another 48 hours. Luckily all my critters have been very understanding. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[boo-yaa138]

remove the sand and you will not have the problem anymore. i used to have the same problem and removed the sand and went glass bottoms and no more problems

 

[hiptang]

okay, i moved my power heads around and cut my lighting by a few hours, and i am feeding as little as possible. I also added another power head. i'm sure it will take a couple of days to see if this helps. If i do not see signs of improvement i might try the red slime remover or chemi-clean. i would rather try to take of it naturally if i can so i don't have to depend of chemicals.
And as far as removing the sand, yes it would be easier to take care of but imo there is no substitute for a sand bed. They help your tank bacteria wise and a clean sand bed looks great. I have a 30g sick tank with just a glass bottom and you could not pay me to have my display tank setup like that.

 

[wax32]

Originally Posted by HipTang
i'm sure it will take a couple of days to see if this helps. If i do not see signs of improvement .
It will take longer than that. One thing that for sure works is to use a hermit that eats cyano, if you have the room in your tank (they get kind of big):
http://www.zooxanthellae.com
Dardanus guttatus, "Blue Knee Hermit"

 

[hiptang]

It will take longer than that. One thing that for sure works is to use a hermit that eats cyano, if you have the room in your tank (they get kind of big):
Well actually i will be able to tell in a couple of days if it is helping because like i stated before my sand bed would be covered in about a week. So if in a couple of days i do not see the sand bed starting to be covered then what i did must be helping. it might not fix the problem 100% but if it can get it to a point that is controlable and workable then i will be happy for now.
and on the blue knee hermit. They are not reef safe and they are not particular about what they eat or kill. I don't want my entire tank wiped out just the cyano.

 

[wax32]

That's correct, they aren't considered reef safe. Mainly because they get pretty big. My LFS has them in some of his tanks and so far they have only eaten cyano and detritus.

I'm not sure I would risk it either, just tossing that out there!