changed skimmers and tank crashed

videoguy

videoguy

Member
I changed from a downdraft skimmer to a g4 skimmer on a 150g tank. All levels were unchanged and 7 days after the skimmer change my tank crashed. All dosing stayed the same. Only change to tank was skimmer.
My dosing is calcium reactor and vodka sugar and vinegar (vsv) and mb7.
My question is can a weaker skimmer cause a toxic build up of vodka sugar and vinegar?
po4 0
no3 20
kh 8
I first noticed a fish beathing hard and started with adding active carbon and water changes. The tank was going downhill fast. I called my friend and had all my corals and fish trasfered to his tank for holding. I was luckey I was home or everything would have been lost
Thanks
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
under normal circumstances a skimmer change would never cause a crash.did you wash the new skimmer before you set it up on the system?if not there could have been something toxic in the new skimmer(cleaner of some sort)
also sugar and vinegar?
 
videoguy

videoguy

Member
Skimmer was on the tank for 7 days. That was only change to tank. I was thinking a toxic build up of vsv (carbon) and the new skimmer unable to remove / add oxygen to the tank. The 1st sign the tank was going downhill was the fish breathing hard showing low oxygen in the tank. I've been dosing the same amount of vsv fo 1 year.
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
usually when a fish is breathing hard it is not oxygen.when there isnt enough oxygen they come to the surface grabbing for air.on the bottom something else is wrong.why are you dosing that for a year? the carbon creats food for bacteria that eats up nitrates and phosphates.as you probably know because this is why you are dosing.but as far as i know it is supposed to be done in cycles.like a month on a month off.
could be wrong though
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by VideoGuy http:///t/389938/changed-skimmers-and-tank-crashed#post_3449699
Skimmer was on the tank for 7 days. That was only change to tank. I was thinking a toxic build up of vsv (carbon) and the new skimmer unable to remove / add oxygen to the tank. The 1st sign the tank was going downhill was the fish breathing hard showing low oxygen in the tank. I've been dosing the same amount of vsv fo 1 year.
I dosed vodka before...I agree with you that's what happened. I run an air hose in my tank (salt creep is a necessary evil) to help put oxygen back into the tank besides the skimmer, to make the top boil.
I now use an Aquaripure filter, it's vodka (carbon) dosing, but you dose the filter instead of the tank. The claim is that it's less risky, you don't need as much carbon and you get the same result. My skimmer has been off line for a month and the tank is fine. So I'm convinced it is less risky because of I were dosing vodka as before, and the skimmer went down, so would my tank.
You might look into getting one. I use the aquaripure on both my 90g reef and 56g seahorse tank. My nitrates are 0 on both tanks.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I doubt it was the skimmer change.....You don't get as much oxygenation as you think from your skimmer......
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389938/changed-skimmers-and-tank-crashed#post_3449848
I doubt it was the skimmer change.....You don't get as much oxygenation as you think from your skimmer......
If you vodka dose and not use a good enough skimmer it sucks the oxygen out of the tank and it crashes. All I know is that you have to have a really good skimmer, I know what you mean by it not adding that much, but it does make a difference.
Carbon dosing is dangerous
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/389938/changed-skimmers-and-tank-crashed#post_3449866
If you vodka dose and not use a good enough skimmer it sucks the oxygen out of the tank and it crashes. All I know is that you have to have a really good skimmer, I know what you mean by it not adding that much, but it does make a difference.
Carbon dosing is dangerous
I'm not questioning the dangers of carbon dosing, but going from a downdraft skimmer to a decent needlewheel skimmer shouldn't have been an issue. I am betting the ASM is more efficient and a better skimmer than the downdraft skimmer that was being used....
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389938/changed-skimmers-and-tank-crashed#post_3449882
I'm not questioning the dangers of carbon dosing, but going from a downdraft skimmer to a decent needlewheel skimmer shouldn't have been an issue. I am betting the ASM is more efficient and a better skimmer than the downdraft skimmer that was being used....
A brand new skimmer doesn't run like it should....there is a break in time. Maybe that would be the difference...I'm just guessing because I reslly don't know. When I was vodka dosing, my skimmer wasn't good enough the first time around, and I had to stop. Even the aquaripure pulls the oxygen out of the tank, it's the bacteria bloom that the carbon causes. So I run an extra air line to make double sure there is enough surface aggitation to keep oxygen in the tank.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Flower I'm in agreement with you on a new skimmer doesn't pull as a broken in skimmer, but the simple fact I'm questioning is the efficiency of the pump of the skimmer to pull air and add to the water isn't affected or slowed down. The pump itself and it's air pulling capability would be the same regardless of broken in or not.
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
i am curious.why do people say there is a break in period for skimmers? everyone i have ever bought worked the same right out of the box
 
S

smallreef

Guest
Flower that is what I was thinking from the OP's first post... The new skimmer wasnt broken in long enough to pull out the buildup and oxygenate as well as the old skimmer was...
It can take anwhere from a few days to 3 weeks to break in a new skimmer, my ASM took about 2 weeks to really start pulling good...
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
From what I can understand of what I have read on vodka dosing.
It creates some big bacteria bloom, the over abundance gives extra food to corals and makes the colors really pop. Somehow that build up of bacteria sucks everything else out of the water the nitrates go to 0, so everything depends on the vodka (carbon) to feed from, the article said not to stop cold turkey, but everyone says they have with no ill effects. . It messes with the PH, and it messes with the oxygen for certain. Even with the Aquaripure, I am warned to keep a close eye on these two things. I also read that if a fish has a bad bacteria, that disease would also bloom big time and could kill your fish.
Since the only thing different about the OP entire system is the skimmer...I think it not being broken in had the greastest chance of being the problem causer. I bet Florida Joe or Spanko could explain things better on how carbon dosing works.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I do stand corrected!!!!! Did a little digging around, and a pretty good explanation, but apparently the OP didn't know all the drawbacks and what not with the dosing of Vodka......

chaeto with vodka is not recommended. Vodka reduces nutrients in order to remove algae... chaeto is algae so vodka dosing can kill the chaeto, releasing nutrients. If you do not have chaeto now, then don't get it. A skimmer is necessary, absolutely necessary. Vodka works by boosting bacteria that is then exported by the skimmer. Without a skimmer, the vodka produces bacteria but does not export nutrients. In addition, the boosted bacteria also consumes oxygen so without a skimmer the tank can become anoxic. So, without a skimmer vodka will not export nutrients and it can crash a tank due to a lack of O2.
 
videoguy

videoguy

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389938/changed-skimmers-and-tank-crashed#post_3450026
I do stand corrected!!!!! Did a little digging around, and a pretty good explanation, but apparently the OP didn't know all the drawbacks and what not with the dosing of Vodka......

chaeto with vodka is not recommended. Vodka reduces nutrients in order to remove algae... chaeto is algae so vodka dosing can kill the chaeto, releasing nutrients. If you do not have chaeto now, then don't get it. A skimmer is necessary, absolutely necessary. Vodka works by boosting bacteria that is then exported by the skimmer. Without a skimmer, the vodka produces bacteria but does not export nutrients. In addition, the boosted bacteria also consumes oxygen so without a skimmer the tank can become anoxic. So, without a skimmer vodka will not export nutrients and it can crash a tank due to a lack of O2.
Where did you find the article?
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389938/changed-skimmers-and-tank-crashed#post_3449848
I doubt it was the skimmer change.....You don't get as much oxygenation as you think from your skimmer......
The Need to Breathe in Reef Tanks: Is it a Given Right? by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
The Need to Breathe, Part 2: Experimental Tanks by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
The Need to Breathe, Part 3: Real Tanks and Real Importance by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
As to the question at hand yes the build up of heterotrophs without the method to remove the dying population could have helped in the tank "crash".
That said did the OP do any testing of the water for ammonia and or nitrites?
I am with Corey on the oxygenation of a new vs. old skimmer though, if the skimmer is running and bubbles are being created there is probably little effect on the amount of oxygen being introduced to the tank. I also think that going from a downdraft to a needle wheel may have actually increased the amount of oxygen being introduced to the tank.
 
videoguy

videoguy

Member
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature
"Two meaningful conclusions can be drawn upon examination of these data. First and foremost, the TOC level does increase over time. Thus, neither microbial action nor skimming removes all of the accumulating TOC. Second, the less presumptuous downdraft skimmer appears to do a better job at holding TOC levels lower over the course of a month compared to the Bubble King clone."
 
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