Changing 2 tires

stdreb27

Active Member
So, to make a long story short I blew out 2 tires. So my dang car has 2 good tires and 2 worn tires at any point of time. Anyway, I drive a FWD car. So I've always put the new tires on the front, moved the front to the back, and drove em till the backs needed replacing. Personally and this is just me, I'd rather had my good tires where I propel my car.
Anyway, today I go to discount, (they kind of left a bad taste in my mouse this time) and now they say, we need to put the good tires on the back, it works trust me. So what do you think about their logic.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3352322
So, to make a long story short I blew out 2 tires. So my dang car has 2 good tires and 2 worn tires at any point of time. Anyway, I drive a FWD car. So I've always put the new tires on the front, moved the front to the back, and drove em till the backs needed replacing. Personally and this is just me, I'd rather had my good tires where I propel my car.
Anyway, today I go to discount, (they kind of left a bad taste in my mouse this time) and now they say, we need to put the good tires on the back, it works trust me. So what do you think about their logic.

I was told FWD always needs all the tires replaced at the same time...I didn't believe them, that's what they told my daughter.
If you do any highway driving I wouldn't want worn tires, front or back. You and your family's lives are at risk. if you are just puttering around town no faster than 30 MH what you are doing is safe enough, if they blow pull over and change a tire.
ME....I call AAA
I don't change tires.
 

reefraff

Active Member
I want to know what they did to leave a bad taste in you mouse?

You want your best tires on the front.
I used to drive my car for work so 80K miles in a couple years wasn't out of the ordinary. I would rotate tires around 20K then leave them until the front tires needed to be replaced. I would put on new fronts and leave the rears as on a FWD car they typically don't wear much. 20K later I would instead of rotating I would move the fronts to the rear and put new front tires on. before the fronts would need to be rotated again I would trade off the the car so what happens after isn't my problem :) I got better than 90K out of the original 4 tires and the 4 replacements on a Ford Festiva that rolled on glorified donuts. Think they were 12 inch rims, those tires usually don't last much over 25K under normal use.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3352367
I want to know what they did to leave a bad taste in you mouse?

You want your best tires on the front.
I used to drive my car for work so 80K miles in a couple years wasn't out of the ordinary. I would rotate tires around 20K then leave them until the front tires needed to be replaced. I would put on new fronts and leave the rears as on a FWD car they typically don't wear much. 20K later I would instead of rotating I would move the fronts to the rear and put new front tires on. before the fronts would need to be rotated again I would trade off the the car so what happens after isn't my problem :) I got better than 90K out of the original 4 tires and the 4 replacements on a Ford Festiva that rolled on glorified donuts. Think they were 12 inch rims, those tires usually don't last much over 25K under normal use.
well I have a pet mouse I keep in my pocket.
 

slice

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3352380
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3352367
I want to know what they did to leave a bad taste in you mouse?

You want your best tires on the front.
I used to drive my car for work so 80K miles in a couple years wasn't out of the ordinary. I would rotate tires around 20K then leave them until the front tires needed to be replaced. I would put on new fronts and leave the rears as on a FWD car they typically don't wear much. 20K later I would instead of rotating I would move the fronts to the rear and put new front tires on. before the fronts would need to be rotated again I would trade off the the car so what happens after isn't my problem :) I got better than 90K out of the original 4 tires and the 4 replacements on a Ford Festiva that rolled on glorified donuts. Think they were 12 inch rims, those tires usually don't last much over 25K under normal use.
well I have a pet mouse I keep in my pocket.
I don't want to know which pocket...
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
Terrible Logic... put the good tires in the front. Doesn't make any sense to put them in the back because they never bear the brunt of the weight. With the old tires in the front, they're much more likely to wear even more with constant turning left and right.
 

monsinour

Active Member
LOL, i thought all you nascar fans knew the answer to this, guess not. The tire dealer is correct that you want the better traction tires on the back rather than the front.
Why does your truck fish tail in sloppy weather? Cuz the back is moving faster than the front.
Why does a front wheel drive car fish tail? Cuz the back is moving faster than the front.
Put the new tires on the back, get a thrust alignment, and yea,it would be better to get 4 news than 2 but never get just 1 or 3.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3354257
LOL, i thought all you nascar fans knew the answer to this, guess not. The tire dealer is correct that you want the better traction tires on the back rather than the front.
Why does your truck fish tail in sloppy weather? Cuz the back is moving faster than the front.
Why does a front wheel drive car fish tail? Cuz the back is moving faster than the front.
Put the new tires on the back, get a thrust alignment, and yea,it would be better to get 4 news than 2 but never get just 1 or 3.
Seeing as how the front brakes do the majority of the braking on front or rear wheel drive cars I'd like to know why the OP would be better off putting the new tires on the rear of his front wheel drive car? Of course what would I know, I'm just a Nascar fan.
 

monsinour

Active Member
From http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52
Most vehicles are equipped with the same size tire at every wheel position. Ideally all of these tires should also be of the same type and design, have the same tread depth and be inflated to the pressures specified by the vehicle placard or owner's manual. This combination best retains the handling balance engineered into the vehicle by its manufacturer.
However due to a front-wheel drive vehicle’s front tires' responsibility for transmitting acceleration, steering and most of the braking forces, it's normal for them to wear faster than rear tires. Therefore if the tires aren't rotated on a regular basis, tires will typically wear out in pairs rather than in sets. And if the tires aren't rotated at all, it's likely that the rear tires will still have about 1/2 of their original tread depth remaining when the front tires are completely worn out.
Intuition suggests that since the front tires wore out first and because there is still about half of the tread remaining on the rear tires, the new tires should be installed on the front axle. This will provide more wet and wintry traction; and by the time the front tires have worn out for the second time, the rear tires will be worn out, too. However in this case, intuition isn't right...and following it can be downright dangerous.
When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the partially worn tires moved to the front. The reason is because new tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads since deeper treaded tires are better at resisting hydroplaning.
Hydroplaning occurs when the tire cannot process enough water through its tread design to maintain effective contact with the road. In moderate to heavy rain, water can pool up in road ruts, depressions and pockets adjacent to pavement expansion joints. At higher speeds, the standing water often found in these pools challenges a tire's ability to resist hydroplaning.
Exactly when hydroplaning occurs is the result of a combination of elements including water depth, vehicle weight and speed, as well as tire size, air pressure, tread design and tread depth. A lightweight vehicle with wide, worn, underinflated tires in a heavy downpour will hydroplane at lower speeds than a heavyweight vehicle equipped with new, narrow, properly inflated tires in drizzling rain.
If the front tires have significantly less tread depth than the rear tires, the front tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the rear tires. While this will cause the vehicle to understeer (the vehicle wants to continue driving straight ahead), understeer is relatively easy to control because releasing the gas pedal will slow the vehicle and help the driver maintain control.
However, if the front tires have significantly more tread depth than the rear tires, the rear tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the fronts. This will cause the vehicle to oversteer (the vehicle will want to spin). Oversteer is far more difficult to control and in addition to the initial distress felt when the rear of the car starts sliding, quickly releasing the gas pedal in an attempt to slow down may actually make it more difficult for the driver to regain control, possibly causing a complete spinout.
Experience
Members of Tire Rack team had the chance to experience this phenomenon at Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds. Participants were allowed to drive around a large radius, wet curve in vehicles fitted with tires of different tread depths -- one vehicle with new tires on the rear and half-worn tires on the front and the other with the new tires in the front and half-worn tires on the rear.
It didn't take long for this hands-on experience to confirm that the "proving grounds" name for the facility was correct. The ability to sense and control predictable understeer with the new tires on the rear and the helplessness in trying to control the surprising oversteer with the new tires on the front was emphatically proven.
And even though our drivers had the advantage of knowing we were going to be challenged to maintain car control, spinouts became common during our laps in the car with the new tires on the front and the worn tires on the rear. Michelin advises us that almost every driver spins out at least once when participating in this demonstration!
Experiencing this phenomenon in the safe, controlled conditions of Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds rather than in traffic on an Interstate ramp in a rainstorm is definitely preferred!
Recommendations
Tires should be serviced periodically following the rotation patterns provided in the vehicle's owner's manual or as established by the industry to help enhance wear quality and equalize front-to-rear and side-to-side wear rates. The minor differences in tread depth between tires that might be encountered immediately after periodic tire rotations at 5,000-7,500 mile intervals won’t upset the vehicle's hydroplaning balance and should not preclude rotating tires. For that matter, any differences in wear rates actually indicate that tire rotations should be done more frequently. Ideally tires should be replaced in complete sets. However when tires are replaced in pairs, the new pair of tires (assuming the vehicle is equipped with the same size tires all of the way around) should always be installed on the rear axle and the existing partially worn tires moved to the front axle.
While insufficient tire rotation intervals and/or out-of-adjustment wheel alignment angles often caused the differences in front-to-rear and side-to-side tire wear rates in the first place, the need to keep deeper treaded tires on the rear axle to resist oversteer conditions caused by wet road hydroplaning is important. Unfortunately this precludes the future possibility of ever rotating tires.
Once a pair of tires has been installed, the only way to escape being forced to drive on mismatched tires continually is to install a complete set of new tires (especially on front-wheel drive vehicles).
Never said you were stupid or lame or whatever. Most people go with new on the fronts. I am just suprised that nascar fans didnt know this.
 

btldreef

Moderator
You beat me to explaining it.
My husband and I are both drag racers and have done auto x, etc, but no one ever listens to me with car advice since I'm the "pretty girl".
When we can't afford to put all new tires on, the rears go to the front and new tires go in the rear (we race front wheel drive cars, not AWD or RWD). It goes against what you would typically think, but it is correct and I have personally felt the difference.
 

monsinour

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3354335
You beat me to explaining it.
My husband and I are both drag racers and have done auto x, etc, but no one ever listens to me with car advice since I'm the "pretty girl
".
When we can't afford to put all new tires on, the rears go to the front and new tires go in the rear (we race front wheel drive cars, not AWD or RWD). It goes against what you would typically think, but it is correct and I have personally felt the difference.
Pics or it didnt happen, LOL.
 

btldreef

Moderator
I guess I walked into that one, and since you weren't around when we all posted pictures of ourselves and I like ya, here ya go:

 

btldreef

Moderator
LOL, this was actually the same day, I changed, he didn't. I raced later that day and got all "gross".
We were at Englishtown, NJ (Old Bridge Township Raceway Park aka E-Town)
 

aquaknight

Active Member
ACTUALLY.....
New tires on the rear is more of a safety recommendation for the general public. In a severe handling situation, with new tires on the back, the rear of the car is less likely to step up and spin, as mentioned above.
However if anyone's taken advanced/racing drivers courses, AND is comfortable handling their car beyond it's limits, put the new tires on the front, as they will wear faster. A FWD car is virtually impossible to spin out, unless the driver is untrained. I watched a driver in a brand-new Accord loop it, and stuff it into the guardrail, when they started to slide, because they did exactly what they weren't suppose to, jam on the brakes and yank the wheel. Having worn tires on the rear, is actually a way to free up a typically understeering FWD car.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3354257
LOL, i thought all you nascar fans knew the answer to this, guess not. The tire dealer is correct that you want the better traction tires on the back rather than the front.
Why does your truck fish tail in sloppy weather? Cuz the back is moving faster than the front.
Why does a front wheel drive car fish tail? Cuz the back is moving faster than the front.
Put the new tires on the back, get a thrust alignment, and yea,it would be better to get 4 news than 2 but never get just 1 or 3.
Well, nascar's big discussion is right side or left side, never front or rear. Besides, they never run (well they did once) in rain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaKnight http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3354360
ACTUALLY.....
New tires on the rear is more of a safety recommendation for the general public. In a severe handling situation, with new tires on the back, the rear of the car is less likely to step up and spin, as mentioned above.
However if anyone's taken advanced/racing drivers courses, AND
is comfortable handling their car beyond it's limits, put the new tires on the front, as they will wear faster. A FWD car is virtually impossible to spin out, unless the driver is untrained. I watched a driver in a brand-new Accord loop it, and stuff it into the guardrail, when they started to slide, because they did exactly what they weren't suppose to, jam on the brakes and yank the wheel. Having worn tires on the rear, is actually a way to free up a typically understeering FWD car.

I guess I always thought I'd rather my rear end sliding all over the place, with my front end sticking, than my whole car sliding, because I lost traction on my front end. My rear end is just going to follow the front end.
 

reefraff

Active Member
The question for Nascar fans would also be stickers or buffs :) The theory about throwing the new tires on the back for handling is solid from the hydroplaning aspect, assuming the rear tires are nearing the end of their useful life. I always did it news up front to get the most miles out of the tires. Handling was never an issue for me but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///forum/thread/383359/changing-2-tires#post_3354351
LOL, this was actually the same day, I changed, he didn't. I raced later that day and got all "gross".
We were at Englishtown, NJ (Old Bridge Township Raceway Park aka E-Town)
Lucky duck. I grew up in the shadow of Orange Country International Raceway in SoCal. Had a lot of fun with run what you brung night there. Three huggers and Developers teamed up to drive it out of existence
 

btldreef

Moderator
Unfortunately this is a 3-4 hour drive for me each weekend once the weather is warm, but very much worth it. I love it there and I love being one of the only women in my class.
 
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