Church.... tests

[fishman830]

I'm in CCD, some of you may or may not know what taht is, it's a course i have to take to maek my confermations, and i jsut took a test, and i thi nk i failed.. i don't see why i should have to take a test on somthing that is PURELY belief... if the bible proven true.. i think not.. i don't see how they can turn BELIEF into numbers and numbers to statistics.. it's just stupid
i should be able to progress thorugh my religeon.. that i don't believe in.. i don't believe there's a heaven or hell. i thin i should be able to make my confermation by just going to the classes which i don't wish to be a part of, if it were up to me.. i wouldn't go at all.. i believe that religeon is merely the answer unanswerable questions.. IE the universe creation... human beginnings..

 

[bonermeister]

At one time, I felt the same way you do.
Read The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith, both by Lee Strobel, they might help you in your search for Truth. I'll send you a copy of each if you would like.

 

[thomas712]

When your done with those books read:
Holy Blood, Holy Grail. I almost guarentee a reaction from you.
This book suggests that Jesus did not die on the cross, and that his decendants still live in France. Makes for some very interesting reading.
Thomas

 

[polarpooch]

You missed the point of CCD altogether. It's supposed to be about FAITH in God, not religion and its dogma. Maybe your instructor didn't make that impression strongly enough--or at all.
You should talk to your CCD instructor and your parents about this.

 

[elfdoctors]

Don't sweat the tests. I don't think that anyone actually fails the tests as long as you show up for the classes. They are mainly an incentive to try to get you to pay attention during the classes.
The teachers can't make you believe anything. They should primarily be focused on exposing you to the church tenets (or at least teaching you where to get the information if you are interested) and helping with your spiritual growth. I assume you are Catholic. CCD is often a poor substitute for religious education in school.
Religion can become an asset during hard times in your life. There are teachable moments for these things when these teachings are particularly meaningful. Unfortunately the teachable moments for religion are usually after you are finished schooling and have faced some adversity. I went to Catholic schools through high school. I would really love to retake some of my high school religion classes (such as comparative religions and early church history).
One of your primary duties as an adolescent is to develop your own personal morality (sense of right and wrong). Your parents and teachers can't dictate this to you. I applaud your independent thinking. However, I would encourage you to at least consider whether the beliefs you are being taught have any validity. The most simplistic explanations are rarely the correct ones. (This is why I am not a creationist.) I was unable to be taught about evolution in high school and I rebelled from religion for a time when I learned the truth. Now even Catholics acknowledge that belief in evolution is compatible with church doctrines. I think that some rebellion against your parents' doctrines is an expected phase of normal development. Striving to be the best person you can be is much more important then arguing over specific beliefs.
Good Luck with your personal spiritual growth!

 

[lovethesea]

what is CCD? My kids go to a catholic school, I have never heard of it.
The churchs offers PSR for public school kids. Is that the same?

 

[bonermeister]

Originally posted by elfdoctors
The most simplistic explanations are rarely the correct ones. (This is why I am not a creationist.) I was unable to be taught about evolution in high school and I rebelled from religion for a time when I learned the truth. Now even Catholics acknowledge that belief in evolution is compatible with church doctrines. I think that some rebellion against your parents' doctrines is an expected phase of normal development.
Evolution is completely incompatible with any Christian doctrines. I do not know where you heard that Doc.
I assume that you still consider yourself Catholic if you went to Catholic high school. If so, than you must believe that the Bible is reasonably accurate if not infallible (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 4:12; 1 Peter 1:23-25; and 2 Peter 1:19-21).
Under these conditions, if you read the first three chapters of Genesis there is no room for evolution. If man evolved from apes, when did the the first two ape-like humans become classified as human? And thus Adam and Eve? Also under this context none of the previous creatures that Adam and Eve would have supposedly evolved from would be dead, because death did not enter the world until after God cursed Man and the world for Adam and Eve's sin (Genesis 3).
Do you agree with those conditions? If so, reread Genesis 1-3 and the listed verses for the support of the accuracy of scripture. If you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, then I guess you can continue to believe whatever you want. I don't mean to bicker over little things, but the comment about Catholic doctrine being compatible with evolution offended me. I hope you will have an open mind and consider this perspective Doc.

 

[fishman830]

Originally posted by elfdoctors
The teachers can't make you believe anything.
couldn't agree more....

 

[fishman830]

i believe in evolution

 

[cindyski]

Originally posted by lovethesea
what is CCD? My kids go to a catholic school, I have never heard of it.
The churchs offers PSR for public school kids. Is that the same?
yea its the same thing, they changed the name for some reason. when i went it was CCD and when my kids went it was PSR. i actually taught a 4th grade class (what a nightmare that was) i didnt want to do it but the church begged me because they were short handed.

 

[elfdoctors]

Originally posted by Bonermeister
Evolution is completely incompatible with any Christian doctrines. I do not know where you heard that Doc.
I assume that you still consider yourself Catholic if you went to Catholic high school. If so, than you must believe that the Bible is reasonably accurate if not infallible
The pope issued a statement with the conclusion that I stated back in 1996. Do a search on Google. Congregations which have been around for centuries have recognized errors in their past. Do you remember Galileo?
I actually now worship in a Lutheran congregation. (My wife is Lutheran and this congregation is much stronger in our small community). I even currently serve on our church council. Our pastor has also told me that belief in evolution is compatible with Lutheran church teachings.
Our church is currently debating its position about homosexuality. This issue is also drawing out people like yourself who believe the bible has to be interpreted literally. It threatens to tear apart the ELCA as many congregations are leaving after the episcopal church (with whom we can share ministers) raised a homosexual bishop. Not having any means of interpreting the true message in the bible has sure made the bible into a very divisive document. :notsure: Closemindedness can drive agnostic people like Fishman830 away from Christ's teachings.
After a period of teenage rebellion, I regained my faith only after I saw the complexity and wonder of evolution. It is hard to imagine that there is not a guiding hand at work. Such a testimony is not compatible with creationism. I am sorry if you are offended by my beliefs. Would I be welcome at your church even though I believe in Jesus? God works in mysterious ways.
Jesus (i.e. the word of God) spoke in parables. Why can't primitive portions of the bible be interpreted as a parable? Do you really think that he wanted people to be fighting over a strict interpretation of his words? Love one another!
I respect your beliefs, Bonermeister. I also applaud your evangelism. However, I know that I will not change your beliefs and you won't be able to change mine. Isn't it possible that good people can have an honest disagreement about issues?

 

[bonermeister]

Originally posted by elfdoctors This issue is also drawing out people like yourself who believe the bible has to be interpreted literally.
I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, without error and is absolute truth, but I don't believe that the entire Bible is to be taken literally. There are all sorts of elements of language used in it, such as: allegories, idioms, symbolism, metaphorical, and phophetic language. Some of these things would make little sense, if any, taken literally.
Originally posted by elfdoctors It is hard to imagine that there is not a guiding hand at work. Such a testimony is not compatible with creationism.
Expand on this please.
Originally posted by elfdoctors Would I be welcome at your church even though I believe in Jesus?
Anyone and everyone is welcome at my church.
Originally posted by elfdoctors Jesus (i.e. the word of God) spoke in parables. Why can't primitive portions of the bible be interpreted as a parable? Do you really think that he wanted people to be fighting over a strict interpretation of his words?
I agree that He doesn't want us arguing over little things, but evolution has done far more harm than good as far as driving people away from God. That is why I abhor it so. At one point in time I believed in evolution (It was difficult not believing it considering I am a Biology major. In fact, the first question on my first college Biology test was "Evolution is: A. Theory B. FACT". According to my prof, B. was the right answer.), but I have read a lot of material for and against evolution and there is a great deal of holes in the theory my professors never discussed or shined light on.
Originally posted by elfdoctors I won't be able to change your beliefs and you won't be able to change mine.
I have still do my absolute best to receive everything with an open mind, do you?
Originally posted by elfdoctors Isn't it possible that good people can have an honest disagreement about issues?
Absolutely my friend.
Originally posted by elfdoctors Love one another!
Amen! :yes: :joy: :cheer: :happy:

 

[sinner's girl]

How can you confirm, if you don't believe what the Church teaches? They teach there is a Heaven and a hell, they teach there evolution is not real, so if you don't follow the belifes of the church, don't confirm.
Then again, Confirmation was in 8th grade, who the heck KNOWS what they believe in at 13? They only really know what the church, school, and parents have been telling them. It was a show for the parents. I don't know if that's the way it still is, that wasn't that long ago, less than ten years.
I remember we were all annoyed that the public school kids were there. We thought they should have a separet confirmation, they didn't belong with us.
I assume that you still consider yourself Catholic if you went to Catholic high school.
Hell no! Just because you go to catholic school, in no way means you are catholic or that you believe or follow what they teach. I'm not catholic, but I went to catholic school for ten years. (public schools suck (where I grew up at least) and are not safe so my parents sent me to catholic school. Though out of the 90 8th graders, only 5 of us were non-catholic.

 

[daniel411]

Originally posted by Sinner's Girl
Then again, Confirmation was in 8th grade, who the heck KNOWS what they believe in at 13?
Actually according to research, the age of 13 is very special. It is the age where if you haven't become a christian, its extremely unlikely you ever will. If you want the research papers I can find them for you.

 

[overanalyzer]

quote:

[hr]
I assume that you still consider yourself Catholic if you went to Catholic high school.

[hr]
[/B]
Hmm went to Cahtolic schools and they taught evolution....
Used to teach @ a Catholic High School and they taught evolution .....
After 13 years of catholic schools (including first year of college). I am not catholic ....
The word Catholic in and of itself means 1. Of broad or liberal scope; comprehensive:
Back when it was Pagans, Jews and Christians the Roman Catholic Church was the only choice unless you wer e a Jew or Gentile .... now not so much.
Also - I thought mosto f the folks who did not believe in Evolution were far more conservative religions ... not Roman Catholics.

 

[daniel411]

Elfdoctors and Bonermeister, consider this.
Say you have Godly man A and Godly man B.
Both Godly man A, and B asks for wisdom and guidance from God. they for the most part is living as he believes God would have him according to the bible. Godly man A believes that Christian Rock music is wrong and is destroying the young Christians of today and the church is becoming liberal.
Godly man B thinks its an awesome way for young Christians to avoid being snagged by the modern music of today’s world and to get a good message. He also believes the church is growing becoming more accepting and loving of others.
The specific issues aren’t really the issue here...its the general point. how can two Godly men asking for guidance on the same issue walk away with opposite views?
Key word being they think... And who is to say they are both hearing from God.
God does not give us oposite instruction He is the same today as yesterday. So he would be the same with one man as another if it was a doctrinal issue. The most acurate way is to study the Word and do not lean on your own understanding... IE What you feel or think... If a child can not understand it at face value it most likly is not the way God meant it to be... Another clue does it align with the Word in all things? Or do some things just not fit, does it create contridictions with other things. We must examine the contectual meaning over any other. Examples being Pre / Post or whatever Rapture... You have to do a lot of twisting and taking it out of context to get most of those doctirnes to work out the way many people believe.....

 

[fishman830]

<--14

 

[fishman830]

Originally posted by elfdoctors
:notsure: Closemindedness can drive agnostic people like Fishman830 away from Christ's teachings.

I don't think i'm closed minded. I just feel that we created god.. that he is just a reasurrance.. an escape.. an answer to all unanswerables.. I don't think i'll be ocnvinced other wise, until the day science and religeon walk hand in hand. I think by being open minded i'm allowing the possible reasons for the actual formation of the universe and human life thought of.
I'm not here to annoy anyone.. or start anything thing with anyone. I'm just saying what i thin is true

 

[fishman830]

Originally posted by Reef_Magic
my dad went thru CCD last year, and if u fail the test i highly doubt the church wont accept u in. i think its just to see what u've learned. do u even get the test back?
no, if i fail it.. i get to re take it.. then if i fail it again i get to take that whole course over!

 

[jb909]

Hey Fishman I feel you're pain but take it one step further. I was sent to a Catholic high school. I was a straight A student except for religion. I couldn't make myself put answers on a test that they wanted to hear, but I didn't necessarily believe. Senior year came and I almost didn't graduate until I sucked it up and told them what they wanted to hear.
It's not that I don't believe in faith, etc. IT's just you can't force someone to believe in something they've hardly had time time to experience yet themselves.