closed loop help

[shouse]

Hey after some advice i'm goign to pursue the closed loop system instead of powerheads. My tank is not drilled.
I've seen this:
http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html
For the most part i'm going to copy the idea but with a few changes. I want to do a pvc frame taht the rock will sit on in the tank that my closed loop will connect to. This is what Steveweast does taht i would like to copy:
http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_circulation.htm
instead of using a SCWD can i just run one straight tube from the pump outlet and connect it to the pvc frame just like the one's Steveweast uses? It makes sense to me but just wanted a second opinion. thanks for lookin.

 

[msd2]

So if I understand correctly you are going to plumb the return to a bunch of small returns throughout the tank? Thats not a problem at all.

 

[shouse]

Here's a picture so it's easier to understand what i'm trying to do. I like the PVC frame b/c it elevates my rock and eliminates dead spots. THe plan is to run it down the back corner of the tank down to the ground and than to join up with steveweasts design of the pvc platforms. The pump will be sitting on the back of the stand. I'm concerned about covering up the pvc when on the tank floor, hoping just to lay sand over it. I think the tank would look better with just a pvc pipe going down teh corner of the tank instead of 4 different PVC heads in each corner of the tank. Also concerned that i may loose a lot of the pumps power when having to push it over the tank, down teh side of the tank, and into the 2 pvc frames and than out throuh teh loc-lines into the water. I'm looking for around 800gph to be seen. Any reccomendations on how strong of a pump i'll need. Probably going to use 1" pvc i think would be the best choice...
I haven't seen anything done exactly like this before but i'd think it could work right? Sorry for all the questions but i'm just trying to get my tank setup properly so i can enjoy it.
sorry i have trouble getting the image to upload onto the forums.

 

[msd2]

hmm a few things I personally might try to do differently.
could you bring the line up directly from under the tank to the so you don't have to go up and around the tank, just because it lets you use a smaller pump w/ more flow. As a side I would also install unions and ball valves so you can take apart the pump and do maintanance.
BTW the drawing you showed I noticed used an overflow. Its not a bad idea but the tube offers less of a chance for trouble and is lower to maintain.

 

[shouse]

o no sorry, the overflow i just put in there (i dont know why), it's apart of my sump. The tube to the left of the overflow is for the CL, just the basic pvc pipe w/ holes that i've seen always done. It's not possible to go through the bottom like steveweast b/c of an all glass aquarium which i'm sure is tempered at least on teh bottom. I don't like the idea of the pvc going up and down the tank but i dont think it should be that noticeable....if so i can easily do the diff. outlets like everyone else does on the SCWD CL.

 

[msd2]

True im sure you can hide the pipe, was just thinking you could get away with a smaller pump that way too (less head pressure). But if you cant you cant so it looks good to me. I would still suggest the unions and ball valves though for your cleaning. It makes them much easier to work with

 

[shouse]

Is there any benefit to this wavemaker thing? looking for aroung 800-1000gph. Using 1" PVC could u make a suggestion on what pump i should be looking into. MAG alright? thanks for all the help.

 

[msd2]

I run a scwd, it works well. Ppl seem to like the mag's I personally like the quiet one pumps and the Iwaki pumps.

 

[squidd]

SCWD are OK on a FOWLR tank (mines been steady for almost a year) but on Reefs with added ca and alk, they tend to "jamb up...eventually...(I got 6 months out of the first one and 3 months out of the second)
At 800 to 1000 gph you "might" want to look at the O/M "Squirt" a 4-way flow director with Much Less "restriction and flow loss than the SCWD (about 30%)... They run about $125..

 

[shouse]

VERY interested, i like the idea of having more directions w/ less flow
I've seen a couple posts about this but not how to make it.
Are there instructions anywhere? thanks squidd

 

[shouse]

nevermind i found it. It seems i'm kind of wrapped up on getting good flow from underneath the rocks to eliminate all dead spots? Am i looking into this too much or is that a serious issue? if so can the SCWD or the squirt accomplish flow throughout the WHOLE tank? thanks

 

[misfit]

I did something like that but left it on the top op the tank browse around i have some pics and info of mine

 

[coryherb]

If our goal is to most simulate reality. Wouldn't having flow originate in the rocks be, well, most unrealistic? I must admit at first glance I thought that was cool and wondered if i could incorporate some of that in my tank. But thinking more on it..it seems that that would just be a pain for the fish. Here is a nice looking cave ... SWOOOSH. The rocks should be an oasis from some of the flow..not the creation of the flow. But..what do I know..this is all new to me .

 

[shouse]

ahha yea i wondered bout that myself.

 

[shouse]

i really like the oceanmotion but it seems a lil pricy. The SCWD seems more cost efficient to me despite the amount of pple raving about the oceanmotions. I'm still a lil confused how the squirt is diff. than the 4-way mag? is it just 4 outputs that run all the time?

 

[squidd]

The Squirt is a smaller "flow director" similar to the 4-way but with 3/4" outlets...
There's a drum inside that rotates and sends flow to 1 and 1/2 of the 4 "holes" at any given time...
If our goal is to most simulate reality. Wouldn't having flow originate in the rocks be, well, most unrealistic?
My "goal" is to keep deitrus suspended untill the overflow can suck it down to the sump/skimmer/fuge to be processed...
Wave action does something similar to the reefs, but we don't have nearly the flow force needed to duplicate that in our systems...
I run about 1/2-1/3 total tank flow out from under my rocks (bare bottom tank) and the other half-2/3 "washing" over the face in a controled random pattern...

 

[shouse]

ok so u do support sucking out the water from underneath the rock? I think i'm probably goign to ahead with the squirt, would like to do 1000-1200gph of true output. Should i maybe put the intake line for taht right near the rock? I dont have a drilled tank so i'm using an overflow for the sump setup. PUtting the intake on the tank floor however will force me to put teh pump even lower than that increasing head and therefore requiring me to buy a bigger pump. ARRRgg this gets aggrivating.

 

[squidd]

ok so u do support sucking out the water from underneath the rock?
No..I support "blowing" the water out from underneath the rock to get deitrus "suspended" in the water colum to get "sucked" out by the overflow...

 

[msd2]

The squirt looks like a nice piece of equipment, but I would contend that a scwd is still a good cheap, easy to install choice. I have been using mine w/o problems for going on 9 months and yes mine is a reef tank. I take it out every few months soak it in vinegar and so far its worked well. I guess it really depends on how much energy you want to put into this to gain a little bit more. I have no doubt that the squirt flushes more water around, but a quesiton is for you to think of do you need that additional circulation, or is it just overkill? Personally I find 2 seio ph, and a scwd setup more than enough for my tank, and the water chemistry backs it.
Dont get me wrong its great to see some of these designs but if ur limited budget sometimes the money might be better spent another way.
Just my 2 cents, dont expect change

 

[squidd]

I agree actually on the SCWD being an "inexpensive" way to get flow switching in your tank..
And was quite a proponent of them when I ran them (still have two going)...at that point I was running one for 9 months and the other for 6....
And at $35-$40 I thought/think..even if I "have to " replace it it's still cheaper than an OM...(4-way at the time)...
But then the Squirt came out for $125...and as I replaced the SCWD that jambed....I realized I could get "more flow" for the price of what I'll have "paid" for my third SCWD if/when it breaks....
And when I did the "direct replacement" (same pump, same plumbing) for the SCWD and saw (measured) how much flow I was "missing"....
I was convinced....
But..I am still running two SCWDs on other tanks and probably won't "drop" another $250...untill they "do" break...