Clownfish having trouble

kmc

Member
One of our false percs has been having a problem for the last week. It looks like he is having trouble staying submerged. He struggles to swim head down and as soon as he stops swimming he pops up to the surface. Looks a lot worse today than earlier in the week.
Any ideas as to what is causing this? The only thing I can think of is we were battling a brown algae outbreak three weeks ago and we raised the salinity up to 1.025 from 1.021 over the course of about two weeks. We have also been keeping the Ph around 8.3 to 8.4. This in an efort to get rid of the algae and make the corals happy. Brown algae is now gone and everything else about the tank looks great.
 

kmc

Member
As far as I can tell the oxygen is OK. The other clown, the smaller one, the six line wrasse, the cherub angel and the clown goby all look to be doing fine.
 

kmc

Member
I just got back from the LFS and the kid there didn't really have any idea. Said it could be something internal like a parasite or something. As long as it eats it might get over it. When it quits eating you're in trouble he said. So I'll feed them and see what happens. Had the water checked while I was there and everything looked normal to me.
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
Ph 8.3
Salinity 1.025
Don't know what else to do but wait it out.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
This does sound internal to me. How long have you had this clown and how long has he shown these symptoms?
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by kmc
One of our false percs has been having a problem for the last week. It looks like he is having trouble staying submerged. He struggles to swim head down and as soon as he stops swimming he pops up to the surface. Looks a lot worse today than earlier in the week.
Any ideas as to what is causing this? The only thing I can think of is we were battling a brown algae outbreak three weeks ago and we raised the salinity up to 1.025 from 1.021 over the course of about two weeks. We have also been keeping the Ph around 8.3 to 8.4. This in an efort to get rid of the algae and make the corals happy. Brown algae is now gone and everything else about the tank looks great.
Sounds like a possible swim bladder problem.....have you added any new equipment such as a power head lately? Was the animal recently acclimated or moved? Still eating?
 

kmc

Member
This particular clown was the first fish added to the tank. We've had them for over two months now with no problems until about a week ago we noticed her starting to swim a little strange. Yesterday was definitely the worst. She is still alive this morning and actually ate good last night. But she is floating on the surface. We have been feeding pellets, frozen brine and frozen mysis shrimp in a rotating order.
We have not added any new equipment or anything else for that matter. The last thing I did was replace the bio balls with LR rubble three or four weeks ago.
Luckily, everything else in the tank is doing fine. Water checks out good and looks great.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
There is zero nutritional value in brine.....only the freshly born have the desired nutrition...which is lost within 8 hours of their hatching.
From fish junkies...I'm at work and cannot sum this up for you.
Swim Bladder Disorder (SBD) sometimes aka Swim Bladder Syndrom, or SBS

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Description:
Swim bladder disorder is a condition that a fish can obtain usually as a direct result of diet, but sometimes also bacteria or even a deformed bladder. Overfeeding is the most common cause, while not feeding enough variety is the second most common. It is not contageous, nor is it truly a disease, but more of a condition. It is by no means deadly, and does not directly cause pain to the fish, but is more of an aggrivation for it, in most cases. But stress can lead to other problems, so it is of course important to treat.
When a fish overeats, its stomach swells beyond its normal size, causing it to press against the swim bladder organ.
Constipation and/or lack of variety in the fish's diet can cause SBD. This causes swelling as food has difficulty passing through the fish, clogging up and causing the stomach or digestive system to swell and press against the swim bladder organ.
SBD causes the fish to lose control of its buoyency. They use their swim bladders to adjust the amount of gas contained within, giving them the ability to maneuver and swim. When they are affected with SBD, they will have problems swimming straight and will instead lay sideways and/or will have problems with staying beneath the water at all. They will sometimes try to jam their bodies underneath objects in their bowl/tank in order to anchor themselves down. When they do try to swim, it looks more like a shimmy.
SBD can also be caused by bacteria. If fasting (see treatment below) does not cure the problem after a few days, treat with an antibacterial medication.
SBD could possibly be caused by some type of rupture to the swim bladder. Dropping a fish, pouring water too fast into a tank, or an overly aggressive spawning partner or tankmate might rupture the swim bladder organ.
Treatment:
In cases of rupture, there is not much you can do other than keep the fish clean to help prevent a bacterial infection, and wait it out. It may eventually heal or it may not; cull or keep, your call. Not moving the fish around will help it to be more comfortable.
Otherwise, if you don't think rupture could be the cause, the best way to treat SBD (the key word is treat, not cure, it's not a disease) is to fast the fish for about 3 days. The lack of food will give the fish's digestive system time to process and purge, allowing pressure to gradually reduce from the swim bladder, allowing its swelling to go down. Even if not due to constipation this will not hurt, because adding food would put even more pressure on the organ. At the end of the third day, if the fish is still having difficulty, it may require longer to allow the swelling to go away, if the problem was due to constipation. A betta can, at extreme, survive for a month without food (this is part of natural survival technique) so do not fear not feeding your betta for a few days. They are very durable fish. At the end of the fasting period, if you really want to ensure the system is flushed out, you can feed a bite-size portion of a cooked, de-shelled, green pea to the fish. Or, daphnia can work as a natural laxative. This, too, will help to purge out the system.
If your fish does not respond to fasting, it may have a rupture or bacterial problem, or even permanent damage due to a defect. Resume feeding the fish, but be especially careful to never overfeed it... keep in mind that most likely
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Whenever you suspect a swim bladder problem, do not poke the fish with a pin or needle!
Symptoms Cause Treatment and Links
A). The fish whirl or wobble around the aquarium This is a gram-positive bacterial infection of the swim bladder known as: Whirling disease Treat with TMP Sulfa -or- Erythromycin

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A). The swim bladder contains purulent fluid. Large numbers of bacteria are found in the fluid and the wall This involves a bacterial infection usually as a result of an inflammation Treat with Quinine Sulfate.

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B). The wall of the swim bladder is hardened The Swim bladder is hardened Raise the temperature in the tank by 3 to 5 degrees for five days.

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C). Round cysts of various sizes occur in the wall of the swim bladder The fish are affected with the sporozoan Eimeria Try: Furazolidone Powder -or- Quinine Sulfate.

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D). Large inclusions occur in the wall of the swim bladder The fish is affected with Microspora No suitable treatment known.

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E). The anterior part of the air bladder, the part towards the abdomen, is inflamed. These fish were standing on their heads, or laying flat on the bottom A bacterial infection is the cause Treat with: TMP Sulfa -or- Sulfa 4 TMP.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
I realize I posted much info.
I gave your problem some thought at lunch. Since the condition worsened after eating it appears the animal might just need to take a big POOP. I'd skip feeding over the next couple days and see if it gradually improves.
others may have suggestions but based on what you have posted...it sounds like a swim bladder problem...and the fish may just be plugged up.
Best I can do with what you have posted...sounds like it needs to take a big crap though. Hopefully it will gradually improve if you skip feeding over the next couple days.
Soak the pellets before feeding...that could be your problem plus you may want to vary the diet even further assuming the diet heas contributed to the plug up...if that is in fact the probelm . Skip the brine....about the same as feeding a marine animal Famous Amos Cookies.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Also, I forgot to mention then info I posted for you pertains to bettas...so disregard the 30 days...but the diagnosis and treatment will work for you animal if it is swim baldder and caused by diet/constipation.
Sorry...but I'm trying to help you from work...in between things. I saw you response to my q's and swim baldder diagnosis from last night. Sorry for the sloppiness...but I'm chucking and ducking. :joy:
 

kmc

Member
Scuba,
Thank you very much for taking the time to post the information. After reading it I am pretty sure the problem is with overfeeding. This particular fish is our most aggressive eater. It's funny because I told my wife last night that the thing probably just needed to take a big dump. I will isolate this fish while feeding the rest for the next three or four days and will actually cut back on the amount overall....again.
As far as the brine. I am going to look at the package this evening but I belive being that it is the frozen stuff that it has some vitamins or what not added to give it some nutritional worth. If not I will cut back on the rotation. They seem to like it well enough. Heck, I like a few Famous Amoses myself every now and then.
Thanks again for your feedback. It looks like the two little Clarkiis at the LFS that I want so bad might have to wait.
 

kmc

Member
Well, the little clownfish fought the good fight but in the end whatever caused the swim bladder disorder won out. I found her up against the intake day before yesterday. I fished her out and buried her in the back yard in what will be known going forward as the "Hutch" memorial burial trench.
What has us worried now is that ever since that day our yellow clown goby "tweety" and our sally lightfoot "jabba" have gone missing. I am beginning to suspect foul play. Is it possible that the crab ate the fish and then choked on a bone or something? The other three fish are just swimming around and acting like they don't know anything ( I personally think there is a cover up ) and the hermit crabs seen to be more active than usual.
 

renogaw

Active Member
the crabs dont eat the bones. they just pick em clean and leave them as a present or hidden in the rocks.
 
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