COMPLETE slatwater begginner..... need some help for stocking,equipment etc.......need ALOT of help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FOWLR tank..lots of questions!!!!!

1212chris1

New Member
ive done freshwater before
so far i have an empty 180 gallon that used to be freshwater... so i finally want to do something with it and do a FOWLR tank.
equipment that i was planning to get is....
aqua c 180 skimmer
90 gallon sump
80 pounds LR
100 pounds live sand
130 pounds dry rock
will i need a canister for mechanical filtration?
my stocking list hopefully would look something like this...
2 true occellaris clown fish
2 neon goby
1 yellow tang(after the tank is setup for a while)
1 blue tang(after tank is setup for a while)
1 niger triggerfish(in the future after about 6 months from whn tank is setup)
1 flame dwarf angelfish
1 starry blenny(iffy)
6 pajama cardinals
1 flame wrasse
bunch of sand sifting snails
maybe some shrimp
overstocked?
thats all i have so far....
any suggestions for the stock list or equipment?...
ok now for some questions...
how do you acclimate saltwater fish?
what would be the weekly maintenance?
how to setup sump and protien skimmer?
good lighting choices?
how many powerheads would i need and what is a good brand and model?
how to make the saltwater?
how to do WC's?
What to feed the fish once there in?
how to cycle the tank?
how to test for salinity?
lol tons of questions
good luck answering them......
thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

khowst

New Member
Hi. Welcome from one newb in the SW world to another.
To answer alot of your questions without getting to far in depth hit the 101 things to know, and useful threads lonk at the top of the page in the forum. Definitely a strong place to start. It goes into alot fo layman level terms with what most everything is & hot is works.
I know looking at your fish list the trigger & inverts will be trouble. Inverts (crabs & shrimp) are the happy meal of choice according to what i read.
I'm sure one of the experts will pop in but wanted to stop in and say hey & welcome.
 

monsinour

Active Member
No expert here, but some answers to your questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1212chris1 http:///forum/thread/384510/complete-slatwater-begginner-need-some-help-for-stocking-equipment-etc-need-alot-of-help-fowlr-tank-lots-of-questions#post_3368372
ive done freshwater before
so far i have an empty 180 gallon that used to be freshwater... so i finally want to do something with it and do a FOWLR tank.
equipment that i was planning to get is....
aqua c 180 skimmer
90 gallon sump
50 pounds LR
100 pounds live sand
90 pounds dry rock
will i need a canister for mechanical filtration?
Probably not since you plan on having a sump. Its a personal choice and another piece of equipment to clean. I dont have a canister or any other kind of mechanical filtration, other than a protien skimmer, in my system and I have a 56g DT and a 16g sump/fuge.
my stocking list hopefully would look something like this...
2 true occellaris clown fish
2 neon goby
1 yellow tang(after the tank is setup for a while)
1 blue tang(after tank is setup for a while)
1 nigger triggerfish(in the future after about 6 months from whn tank is setup) will probably eat the snails and shrimp
1 flame dwarf angelfish
1 starry blenny(iffy)
6 pajama cardinals
1 flame wrasse
bunch of sand sifting snails
maybe some shrimp
overstocked? 16 fish in a 180 isnt so bad with the proper filtration and water maintenance.
thats all i have so far....
any suggestions for the stock list or equipment?... More rock. Guidelines are 1 to 2 pounds per gallon.
ok now for some questions...
how do you acclimate saltwater fish?
See this post -> https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/380378/125g-completely-cycled/20#post_3310579
what would be the weekly maintenance?
If you want to do weekly water changes, start with a small 5% water change. Monitor your levels. If this is keeping the levels stable or dropping the bad nitrate, then keep at it. If not, bump up the ammount of water volume you change.
how to setup sump and protien skimmer?
Lots of ways to do this but it really depends on what you get. Most skimmers are a set it and reset it and reset it until you get it right. The people here will be more than happy to assist you with this.
good lighting choices?
If you are going to stay with a FOWLR setup, any basic lights will do. You could go with regular incasenant light bulbs really. However, if you plan to do a reef one day, this is where you should not cheap out. T5HO is a good place to start with the ability to do corals down the line while keeping the $ to a minimum.
how many powerheads would i need and what is a good brand and model?
The number of PHs depends on placement. I would assume you have a 6' or 8' long tank right? Start with 4 and put one on either end and 2 on the back. If that is not enough, add to the sides first and then add to the back. Good namebrand would be Korila.
how to make the saltwater?
Get yourself a mixing tub/can. Most people have a Brute 50 gallon trash can that they use to collect RO water from a RO/DI unit. Then they might have a second Brute can to actually mix the saltwater in. For me, I have a 18 gallon rubbermaid tub. I pour in 11 gallons of RO/DI water that I get from sprawlmart and pour in the salt. I use Instant Ocean Reef Crystals as i need the extra trace minerals for my corals and inverts. I have an el cheapo powerhead in there to churn up the water. I let it sit for atleast 24 hours before I use it and most of the time it churns for 48 before I use it. Whatever PH you get to churn the water, get a vinyl hose to go on the end so that the PH can pump the new water into your tank.
how to do WC's?
Depends on your setup. Typically you start the syphon into a 5g bucket (or larger if you are doing a bigger change. I do the 5g bucket twice.) and position the tube in the tank so it wont come out. Then take a fish only turkery baster and start "blasting" the rocks to get the craop off of the rocks and into the water column. Then take the syphon tube and collect as much of the floating bits as you can. Once you have removed the water, time to put the new water in. Besure the new water is the same temp, or as close as you can get it, to the system water.
What to feed the fish once there in?
From your stock list, there are meat eaters, algea eaters, and scavangers in there. So, get some mysis and algea strips. If you have a choice in color of algea strips, go brown. Brown algea is the only color that has all 3 acids in it naturally. Green is the next best and then red. (I could have it backwards with red instead of brown. I have forgotten this from the meeting i attending in my local reef club. I feed green strips because I dont have a choice currently.)
how to cycle the tank?
Get the tank setup how you want it, basically position it in the room where you want it. Then place eggcrating on the bottom glass (this step is optional) to hold the rocks in place incase a sand sifter disturbs the sandbed. Then place your rocks where you want them. Add in sand to the desired level. Place a plate on the sand bed and add in your mixed saltwater to the desired level making sure that when your pour in the water, you hit the plate. This is to prevent churning up the sand bed too much. Turn on your PH and pumps, leave the skimmer off, and add a piece of raw shrimp. Now the waiting begins. Take water readings on a regular basis watching for ammonia and nitrite spikes. Once you get a spike, take the shrimp out, usually done when the ammonia hits 1. Once the ammonia and nitrite are at 0 for a week, you can now start to add fish. Start slowly and small. Clowns do wonderfully as the fist additions.
how to test for salinity?
Hydrometor is good to start with, but we all need refractometers.
lol tons of questions
good luck answering them......
thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get yourself a good water test kit. The API test kits are great for beginners. And yea, read the 2 stickeyed threads at the top of the new hobbist forum. Lots of helpful information in there.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
It's a Niger Triggerfish, like the country.
Click link below;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/En-us-Niger.ogg
 

1212chris1

New Member
what if i take out the triggerfish? so it would be this....(dont really want pj cardinals anymore)
2 true occellaris clown fish
2 neon goby
1 yellow tang(after the tank is setup for a while)
1 blue tang(after tank is setup for a while)
1 flame dwarf angelfish
1 starry blenny(iffy)
1 flame wrasse
bunch of sand sifting snails
maybe some shrimp
turns out im getting a 200 gallon tank:)
ill up the sump to 110 gallons
90 pounds live rock
130 pounds dry rock
SRO 3000 protien skimmer
anything else that i could add?
other fish i want to add...(not all of themm just a wish list!)
2 purple firefish
1 bicolor blenny
1 coral bueaty angelfish
1 kole tang
1 christmas wrasse
? banded coral shrimp
? turbo snails
1 sand sifting sea star
 

1212chris1

New Member
so ill add another flame wrasse
it will be like this...
2 true occellaris clown fish
2 neon goby
1 yellow tang(after the tank is setup for a while)
1 blue tang(after tank is setup for a while)
1 flame dwarf angelfish
1 starry blenny
2 flame wrasse
bunch of sand sifting snails
maybe some shrimp
turns out im getting a 200 gallon tank:)
ill up the sump to 110 gallons
90 pounds live rock
130 pounds dry rock
SRO 3000 protien skimmer
0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 2px; padding-left: 0px; ">
anything else that i could add?
other fish i want to add...(not all of themm just a wish list!)
2 purple firefish
1 bicolor blenny
1 coral bueaty angelfish
1 kole tang
1 christmas wrasse
? banded coral shrimp
? turbo snails
1 sand sifting sea star
 

monsinour

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1212chris1 http:///forum/thread/384510/complete-slatwater-begginner-need-some-help-for-stocking-equipment-etc-need-alot-of-help-fowlr-tank-lots-of-questions#post_3368618
so ill add another flame wrasse
it will be like this...
2 true occellaris clown fish Fine and will make perfect first additions.
2 neon goby Should be fine
1 yellow tang(after the tank is setup for a while) No tang police issues here
1 blue tang(after tank is setup for a while) No tang police issues here
1 flame dwarf angelfish Its the one I wanted, but the wife had to have blue so we got the coral beauty. Will be fine.
1 starry blenny should be ok
2 flame wrasse Should be ok
bunch of sand sifting snails 10 - 20 Nassi snails
maybe some shrimp 2 - 4 skunk cleaners or 2 skunks and 2 pepps to start out with.
turns out im getting a 200 gallon tank:)
ill up the sump to 110 gallons
90 pounds live rock Save money and stick with the original 50 pounds of live and increase the base ammount. After a while, it will all be live.
130 pounds dry rock
SRO 3000 protien skimmer
padding-bottom: 2px; margin: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px">
anything else that i could add?
other fish i want to add...(not all of themm just a wish list!)
2 purple firefish Should be added in odd numbers. So 1 or 3 really.
1 bicolor blenny Not sure if it will cause a problem with the other blenny in the tank. It is a big tank and might be ok. Wait for expert opinion.
1 coral bueaty angelfish Not sure if it will cause a problem with the other dwarf angel in the tank. It is a big tank and might be ok. Wait for expert opinion.
1 kole tang No tank police issues here
1 christmas wrasse Not sure if it will cause a problem with the other wrasses in the tank. It is a big tank and might be ok. Wait for expert opinion.
? banded coral shrimp Will eat the shrimp listed above. Not so much a cleaner. If you want variety of shrimp, I suggest a Fire shrimp.
? turbo snails Probably 20 to start with
1 sand sifting sea star Going to have to wait a year before you get one of these. Need to build up the stuff in the sand bed it eats before you get one.
You will need other snails too. Some kind of trouchus, margaritta, ceriths. You will need to decide how you feel about hermits too. I feel that with enough snails, you dont need hermits.
 

1212chris1

New Member
thank you monsinour!!!!!!!!!!
so itll be this right?lol im so stuck to planning the stock...almost more fun then when you get them!!!!
200 gallon
50 pounds live rock
170 pounds base rock
SRO 3000 skimmer
110 gallon sump
2 true occellaris clown fish Fine and will make perfect first additions.
2 neon goby Should be fine
1 yellow tang(after the tank is setup for a while) No tang police issues here
1 blue tang(after tank is setup for a while) No tang police issues here
1 flame dwarf angelfish Its the one I wanted, but the wife had to have blue so we got the coral beauty. Will be fine.
1 starry blenny should be ok
2 flame wrasse Should be ok
10 - 20 Nassi snails
2 - 4 skunk cleaners or 2 skunks and 2 pepps to start out with.
3 purple fire fish
1 kole tang
20 turbo snails
1 coral bueaty angelfish
1 bicolor blenny
is this ok?
 

monsinour

Active Member
I am sure the dwarf angels will coexist in a large tank like that just fine, but dont take my word for it. Also, the blennys might not get along either. Wait for expert opinion. Otherwise, looks good.
 

btldreef

Moderator
You've been given some great info thus far, so I'm just going to add a few things:
The two blennies and the two dwarf angelfish are risky, but can, and have been done. I have a Coral Beauty and a Flame together in my 155 along with a Tail Spot Blenny and a Black Combtooth together in the same tank. There will almost always be some aggression. There are some ways to avoid this. Add the smaller (the bicolor in your case) fish first and allow it to establish its own territory or add the two together. When I added the flame, I had already had the Coral Beauty for some time, and there was quite a bit of aggression in the beginning. The flame literally bit a chunk out of my CB's head. It got so intense (and I overreacted) that I had to tape a picture of a giant angelfish to the glass. Once they thought there was a bigger fish in the tank, they stopped beating on each other quite as much. As for the blennies, my Tail Spot and Black Combtooth have never fought, but my Tail Spot did kill his mate.
The stock list looks okay. Add the tanks slowly and far apart from each other. Add the Kole before the other two as it is the most peaceful of the three and this will allow it ample time to set up it's own territory. Don't buy a blue hippo tang that is less than 3", they have a terribly low survival rate.
Are you planning on setting up a quarantine tank? Since you're going to be dealing with tangs, I highly recommend you have one.
Neon gobies usually only have a life span of a year or two, save your money and get something else.
All of your fish are reef safe, so go with reef safe inverts. This way, if you decide to keep some corals, you won't have to change anything about the tanks inhabitants (trust me, catching a fish or a shrimp can be a real hassle).
Flame wrasses are very expensive, are you aware of this?
As for your Clean Up Crew (CUC):
20 Turbo snails is fine, but you're going to need more than this
Also consider some shrimp. I'd do at least two Skunk Cleaner shrimp, possibly 4. Definitely get yourself some Nassarius snails. They will really help keep your tank, especially your sand clean. Consider some Trochus snails as well.
Hermits will help, it's up to you. I keep reef tanks and hate hermits and turbo snails because they tend to knock over corals.
Down the road, you might want to consider an urchin and/or starfish for the tank.
Get yourself some good test kits, and if you have an intention of ever doing corals in this tank. I'm a believer that even if corals are not in the tank, you should still be testing for calcium and alkalinity, as these can effect your pH. API makes great kits that are very trusted in the hobby. If you really dive into corals, you might want to upgrade to something better, but API is a great start.
Really think about your lighting. If you're going to go with corals one day, get decent lights now. Fish can live just on the lighting that is available in the room, so save up for lighting, you won't need it right away. If you have no intention of ever doing corals, get some cool LED light strips to really make the colors of your fish and inverts pop. Blues, reds and whites make good combos, there should be more white than the other colors to get the best effects while still looking somewhat natural.
Another thing:
Is this a used tank? Used tanks, especially fresh water used tanks run the risk of having been exposed to copper which is very bad for saltwater inverts (shrimps, snails, etc). Make sure this tank has not been treated with copper. If it has, look elsewhere or know that you might never be able to keep inverts in it.
 

1212chris1

New Member
thanks btldreef!!!!!
i will be setting up a quarintine tank... how big should it be and what equipment should i hvae on it?
i will be adding 1-2 fish per month..
not a used tank....
WOAH, i didnt know flame wrasses were that expensive!!!!! 250$ for 1 ,holy crap!!!!!!!!
what about 2 longfin fairy wrasses instead of the flame wrasses...
i will be adding the shrimp and snails you suggested, maybe even the seastar down the road
i will be getting good test kits....
any way i can make the stocklist better? i like the neon gobies because of the way they look and how they eat skin parasites off the other fish which i thought was cool
what lighting would do best? i dont plan on reef for maybe like 3 years, this is my first SW tank
 

btldreef

Moderator
As far as fairy wrasses and flashed wrasses go, they can be kept as pairs or in small harems of one male and multiple females as long as they're the same species. If you do a pair, make sure one is male and the other female and add them together if possible. It's usually easy to tell the difference with most fairies and flashers.
A 20-30 gallon would be good for a QT in your case, as long as you font buy fully grown adult tangs and expect to keep them in there. If you look in the disease fish section of this forum, there is good info on how to properly set up a QT.
As for adding 2 fish per month, this is doable, but don't rush. Adding fish quickly usually means not quarantining them long enough which can result in disaster down the road. Trust me, having 10 fish in your tank and then discovering a parasite such as ich on one of them is a nightmare, because even if you only see it on one, they all must be treated at the same time. It will take more time, but it's worth it. More than one fish can be quarantined at the same time, especially if they're a pair. If you have the room, you can also set up more than one QT. Keep in mind that adding too many fish too quickly to the main tank can cause problems. You need to allow the tank to catch up to the new bioload produced by each new addition. Along the way, you may need to add more members to your clean up crew to help as well. What has worked best for me is to add a fish, wait two weeks and observe how the tank is handling new additions, add more clean up crew members if needed and wait two weeks and observe again. At this point, it's one month since the fish addition and a better time to add another fish and repeat the process. I don't follow this to a T each time, but it's a good idea, especially with a new setup. Also, while you have a fish in the QT, you can really observe what they eat, how often they eat, and their overall behavior. I train my fish to hand feed. This is a big help, especially in a reef or a large tank with lots of live rock. If your fish are not afraid of your hand, they're easier to catch if you ever need to. Keep in mind that not all fish are unhealthy and may not need the QT, but it's still a good idea to observe them in QT for two weeks, if they're sick, they'll have to be in the QT for longer.
Neon gobies are neat fish, you can still have them, just know that their life soan is short. They're not terribly expensive, so if you still want them, go for it. Cleaner wrasses are similar, but there is some taboo as to whether hobbyists should keep them or not. I do have one and love it. If you go the cleaner wrasse route, make sure you see it eat meaty foods in the store (this goes for all fish, you really should ask to see them eat prior to purchase).
I think your stock list looks good. You can always change it around a little, I'm forever adding and removing fish in my tanks.
You can add a starfish down the road, just don't place one in a new tank, they really need established tanks go thrive.
As for lighting, if you have the time, look into LEDs. There are many DIY threads and kits available. They take time and can be pricey, but will save you a lot of money in the long run. Since you have the time, it would definitely be a smart investment for your size tank and you can save up over time, buy parts here and there, etc.
 

nikesb

Active Member
there can be more than 1 male fairy wrasse in a harem. If i had space I would actually do 1 supermale, 1 male, and 2 females. the reason for the male is that it will help with the coloration of the supermale.
 

1212chris1

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///forum/thread/384510/complete-slatwater-begginner-need-some-help-for-stocking-equipment-etc-need-alot-of-help-fowlr-tank-lots-of-questions#post_3369088
As far as fairy wrasses and flashed wrasses go, they can be kept as pairs or in small harems of one male and multiple females as long as they're the same species. If you do a pair, make sure one is male and the other female and add them together if possible. It's usually easy to tell the difference with most fairies and flashers.
A 20-30 gallon would be good for a QT in your case, as long as you font buy fully grown adult tangs and expect to keep them in there. If you look in the disease fish section of this forum, there is good info on how to properly set up a QT.
As for adding 2 fish per month, this is doable, but don't rush. Adding fish quickly usually means not quarantining them long enough which can result in disaster down the road. Trust me, having 10 fish in your tank and then discovering a parasite such as ich on one of them is a nightmare, because even if you only see it on one, they all must be treated at the same time. It will take more time, but it's worth it. More than one fish can be quarantined at the same time, especially if they're a pair. If you have the room, you can also set up more than one QT. Keep in mind that adding too many fish too quickly to the main tank can cause problems. You need to allow the tank to catch up to the new bioload produced by each new addition. Along the way, you may need to add more members to your clean up crew to help as well. What has worked best for me is to add a fish, wait two weeks and observe how the tank is handling new additions, add more clean up crew members if needed and wait two weeks and observe again. At this point, it's one month since the fish addition and a better time to add another fish and repeat the process. I don't follow this to a T each time, but it's a good idea, especially with a new setup. Also, while you have a fish in the QT, you can really observe what they eat, how often they eat, and their overall behavior. I train my fish to hand feed. This is a big help, especially in a reef or a large tank with lots of live rock. If your fish are not afraid of your hand, they're easier to catch if you ever need to. Keep in mind that not all fish are unhealthy and may not need the QT, but it's still a good idea to observe them in QT for two weeks, if they're sick, they'll have to be in the QT for longer.
Neon gobies are neat fish, you can still have them, just know that their life soan is short. They're not terribly expensive, so if you still want them, go for it. Cleaner wrasses are similar, but there is some taboo as to whether hobbyists should keep them or not. I do have one and love it. If you go the cleaner wrasse route, make sure you see it eat meaty foods in the store (this goes for all fish, you really should ask to see them eat prior to purchase).
I think your stock list looks good. You can always change it around a little, I'm forever adding and removing fish in my tanks.
You can add a starfish down the road, just don't place one in a new tank, they really need established tanks go thrive.
As for lighting, if you have the time, look into LEDs. There are many DIY threads and kits available. They take time and can be pricey, but will save you a lot of money in the long run. Since you have the time, it would definitely be a smart investment for your size tank and you can save up over time, buy parts here and there, etc.
so i guess ill get 3 fairy wrasses instead of 2 ,1M and 2F
so itll be like this..... lol ive said that so many times...
200 gallon
50 pounds live rock
170 pounds base rock
SRO 3000 skimmer
110 gallon sump
2 true occellaris clown fish
2 neon goby
1 yellow tang(after the tank is setup for a while)
1 blue tang(after tank is setup for a while)
1 flame dwarf angelfish
1 starry blenny
2 fairy wrasse
3 purple fire fish
dding-bottom: 2px; padding-left: 0px; ">
1 kole tang
20 turbo snails
1 coral bueaty angelfish
1 bicolor blenny
4 skunk cleaner shrimp
10 nassarius snails
10 trochus snails
7 hermit crabs
little while after tank is setup...
1 sand sifting sea star
maybe a school of chromis....
will be adding clowns first... any order of stocking you would think would be best?
 

btldreef

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeSB http:///forum/thread/384510/complete-slatwater-begginner-need-some-help-for-stocking-equipment-etc-need-alot-of-help-fowlr-tank-lots-of-questions#post_3369096
there can be more than 1 male fairy wrasse in a harem. If i had space I would actually do 1 supermale, 1 male, and 2 females. the reason for the male is that it will help with the coloration of the supermale.
I never knew this. Good to know. I'm putting together a harem of McCosker's, would you suggest 2 males with 2 females? I only have one male as of right now, and have been on a hunt for females, but maybe I should pick up another male as well?
 

nikesb

Active Member
i would pick up the females first before putting two males together. basically coloration is due to trying to impress the females. i'm not too sure about flasher wrasses, but i dont see very many terminal (supermale) flashers, so it might not be the case. I'll try to find out. i do know that flashers will flash more once in groups
 

btldreef

Moderator
I would do it this way, it's not perfect, and someone might do it differently, but this is how I would probably do it:
3 of each types of snails and a few hermits
2 clownfish
3 Purple Firefish
1 BiColor Blenny
2 Neon Gobies
4 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
1 Kole Tang
Flasher Wrasses
Both Dwarf angelfish together to help with aggression
1 Yellow Tang
Flasher Wrasses
1 Starry Blenny
1 Blue Hippo Tang
**Along the way of fish additions, you'll have to add more to your clean up crew to account for the heavier bioload. Start with a few snails and hermits for a week or so before you add fish and observe them. If everything is good, start adding your fish. Add to the clean up crew as you see necessary.
20 Turbo snails is a lot, you might want to do less turbo's and more of something else, but 20 is doable. With the CUC you really just have to watch and adjust as needed. Everyone's tank is different.
 
Top