Concrete Reef Rock

mantisman51

Active Member
A long time ago, I read where a gentleman wrote that he made reef rock out of quick-crete.I went to the LFS and they had a large variety of what they said was concrete reef rock.I am contemplating the additon of several arches and caves and have a couple bags of quick-crete, I was thinking of making my own as I have yet to find exactly what I was looking for.Does anyone know if standard concrete can be used in a reef tank?
 

jackri

Active Member
I've heard portland cement you can use. You have to soak it in water for 30 days, changing the water daily to leech everything out of it as it cures.
I'm going to be making coral plugs -- tip I got from here and curing them in the toilet tank ;)
SHHHHH don't tell the wife
 

kingphish

New Member
I recently came into posession of a beautiful 80 lb lava rock. I had a buddy chop it up. I will be in chicago in 3 days to check on my tank and had my buddy clean up the lava rock. I would love to replace what I have with these pieces of lava rock. I have one problem though it floats, any suggestions. I could swear when i was a kid I had lava rock in my cichlid tank.
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Some see a toilet as a place to dispose of waste...we see instant water changing systems. Not a bad idea (just put it in the tank...not the bowl).
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by kingphish
http:///forum/post/2941114
I recently came into posession of a beautiful 80 lb lava rock. I had a buddy chop it up. I will be in chicago in 3 days to check on my tank and had my buddy clean up the lava rock. I would love to replace what I have with these pieces of lava rock. I have one problem though it floats, any suggestions. I could swear when i was a kid I had lava rock in my cichlid tank.
Lava rock isnt really a good idea to have in a SW tank,reason being it tends to have traces of different metals in it.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Yeah, lava rock is doable, but you have to slowly roll it and tap it, under water, to get all the air out. I have a large piece in my LR and I actually spent close to an hour rolling and tapping. I finally put it under another piece of rock. After a couple months, I checked and it didn't float. It takes a while for all the air that's trapped in the honey comb to work out.
 

try2wryte

Member
the portland cement thing looks mor realistic if you mix a 3 to 1 or 5 to 1 ratio of Portland, and Poultry feed (crushed oyster shell) thenthrow in a couple soops of rock salt for porosity.
We're using that recipe to put a stone henge in another tank
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by Try2wryte
http:///forum/post/2941175
the portland cement thing looks mor realistic if you mix a 3 to 1 or 5 to 1 ratio of Portland, and Poultry feed (crushed oyster shell) thenthrow in a couple soops of rock salt for porosity.
We're using that recipe to put a stone henge in another tank
Stone Henge...that sounds awesome!
Originally Posted by mantisman51

http:///forum/post/2941171
Yeah, lava rock is doable, but you have to slowly roll it and tap it, under water, to get all the air out. I have a large piece in my LR and I actually spent close to an hour rolling and tapping. I finally put it under another piece of rock. After a couple months, I checked and it didn't float. It takes a while for all the air that's trapped in the honey comb to work out.
That is okay for FW, many people have luck with that...but 2 things. As was already mentioned, it leeches harmful things into the tank. And secondly, it is not a very good biological filter. The pores get clogged and there isn't a whole lot of surface area for bacteria to thrive. My advice is...don't do it.
 

try2wryte

Member
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/2941179
Stone Henge...that sounds awesome!
That is okay for FW, many people have luck with that...but 2 things. As was already mentioned, it leeches harmful things into the tank. And secondly, it is not a very good biological filter. The pores get clogged and there isn't a whole lot of surface area for bacteria to thrive. My advice is...don't do it.

This is where the rock salt comes in, We've seen a batch thats 3 yrs old made without it and a batch thats 8 months old made with the rock salt and the more porous batch is indistinguishable from the other natural live rock in the tank. This kid even used the mix to cover the ends of the pvc piping or his eel, it looks like a natural cave. Wish I took a picture
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by Try2wryte
http:///forum/post/2941188
This is where the rock salt comes in, We've seen a batch thats 3 yrs old made without it and a batch thats 8 months old made with the rock salt and the more porous batch is indistinguishable from the other natural live rock in the tank. This kid even used the mix to cover the ends of the pvc piping or his eel, it looks like a natural cave. Wish I took a picture
I was talking about the lava rock, not the cement...sorry I should've specified.
 

marcb

Member
Originally Posted by kingphish
http:///forum/post/2941114
I recently came into posession of a beautiful 80 lb lava rock. I had a buddy chop it up. I will be in chicago in 3 days to check on my tank and had my buddy clean up the lava rock. I would love to replace what I have with these pieces of lava rock. I have one problem though it floats, any suggestions. I could swear when i was a kid I had lava rock in my cichlid tank.

I am no expert, BUT in doing research for my tank I read Fenner's book. He clearly stated not to use lava rocks due to the tendency of those rocks to leach harmful compounds into your tank over time. So while they may seem to be ok for a while, eventually you may have a complete crash.
 

slade1274

Member
I've made some and used drinkng and coctail straws cut off at .25 and .5 inch lenghts in the mix to hlep with "porosity". Cure it in a bath tub if you have a spare to make it easier to chang water.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Search for GARF. Great website, though, you will come out better just by buying base rock from your lfs. Less wait, unless you really want to come up with your own rock designs.
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
this cement rock: does it turn into LR after a while? How close to the real deal does it appear?
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
nothing will ever substitute good ole' live rock. It's better to put your money into a few lbs of live rock then a potentially failed experiment.
 

jmh-hsu

New Member
In response to a few things...
Concrete is a synthetic rock-like substance composed of cement and an aggregate. Depending on application, the aggregate may be lightweight clay (Illite, Vermiculite), bits of crushed up limestone or old concrete, or Fe and Mg (specifically for high strength apps, like multi-story building foundations).
Cement is the end result of a series of rxns beginning with the extreme heating of limestone and clay. This results in something called a "clinker" which will then be further refined to yield Portland Cement.
When you mix cement with a small amount of very fine aggregate (think powder) and water, you get mortar: perfect for sticking stone and brick together, not great for making 3-D objects. You need a more substantial aggregate, so usually sand or gravel is added to bulk up the strength and structure, giving you a sturdy base for construction once it has fully cured (which could be as long as a year or two!). The amount of water used during this step is also important: more h2o = less viscosity, easier to work with, higher porosity, but less strength.
Limestone is a sedimentary carbonate rock created by organisms that take Ca out of solution and bind it with a carbonate molecule (CO3). In an aquarium since the system is closed, to increase this activity you can pump in C02 and add Kalkwasser treatments, however, if your initial ingredients are poor, you are setting yourself up for disaster.
You can (and should) make your own reef rocks from concrete, since the limestone used for its production is mined from ancient quarries instead of being removed from the oceans and shipped halfway around the world. You can play with different ratios and mixtures, but using 1 part TypeII Portland Cement, 3-4parts finely crushed Oyster shells (or a powdery flour version) and 1 part aragonite or plain old crushed sea shells will yield a realistic looking Fiji-esque reef rock. Use slightly more water than normal since you want your mixture to be porous. Whatever ratio you decide on, you need to cure this rock for a minimum of 6-8 weeks, in freshwater, with weekly or biweekly water changes. No cutting corners here, good things come to those who wait.
Hope this helps
PS- Lava rock, which is probably dark red Scoria is mainly Fe and Mg. It contributes nothing in the way of Ca and will actually hurt your inhabitants over time, since Fe and Mg compete with Ca for binding sites on Oxygen. Take it out of your take. Since these rxns take time to build up in your water, things may seem fine now. In a few months everything will be dead or dying in your tank and you will most likely have to start over from scratch.
Good Luck
 
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