Confused about filtration

pstanley

Member
I am starting a new 60 gallon tank which will eventually have some easier to keep corals with a moderate amout of fish and 60+ lbs of live rock. All the research I have done seems to say that you don't need any additional biological filtration other than the live rock (due to wet/dry filters/bioballs creating large amounts of nitrates). What is the proper filtration for a saltwater tank? Do I need any additional mechanical/biological filtration besides a sump and live rock or would I be better off running some sort of biological media in the sump along with the live rock in the display tank? I will be running a skimmer with either method.
I am in the process of buying equipment and don't know whether I need to purchase a simple sump or if I need to buy a wet/dry filter big enough to hold a skimmer.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396478/confused-about-filtration#post_3532691
I am starting a new 60 gallon tank which will eventually have some easier to keep corals with a moderate amout of fish and 60+ lbs of live rock. All the research I have done seems to say that you don't need any additional biological filtration other than the live rock (due to wet/dry filters/bioballs creating large amounts of nitrates). What is the proper filtration for a saltwater tank? Do I need any additional mechanical/biological filtration besides a sump and live rock or would I be better off running some sort of biological media in the sump along with the live rock in the display tank? I will be running a skimmer with either method.
I am in the process of buying equipment and don't know whether I need to purchase a simple sump or if I need to buy a wet/dry filter big enough to hold a skimmer.

Hi, The only filtration you can't use are the under gravel types. It really is a matter of personal choice. Frankly the "nitrate factory" is a myth. If you maintain your filtration properly, you won't have any "factory" to concern yourself with. Nitrate is the last stage in our tanks to complete the nitrogen cycle. The true last stage is when it changes to a harmless gas, but it is too slow to really happen with any efficiency, so we do water changes. When you do your water change, rinse bio balls or whatever media in the (once removed to a bucket) old saltwater...that way you maintain the good bacteria.

A drilled tank and use a sump system, is the best choice. It gives extra water volume, gives a place to hide equipment such as the heater and skimmer. It's the easiest to maintain. Rock is indeed the only NATURAL filtration you need
, but a refugium with some macroalgae, or decorative macros in the display, are also natural filters...and it will keep a reef system much more stable. Too much rock, and the fish have nowhere to swim. The greatest thing about macroalgae is 0 phosphates and nitrates...it feeds on it, absorbing it, and as you remove the growth, you remove the nasty stuff out of the system.

The mechanical
filter is the skimmer, and whatever media you decide to run, such as carbon to keep the corals chemical warfare down to a minimum, or a GFO reactor to remove phosphates.

Wet/dry systems with bio balls is a pain in the butt to clean up, it's all bending over and working your back.

Both the wet/dry and sump w/refugium...can have an in sump skimmer (so a big yes on being large enough), what a joy, you have no idea what a plus that is.

A canister is easy, no need to drill, and the spray-bar makes moving surface water a breeze, and won't take up a power head needing to be pointed toward the surface. It's easy enough to maintain, but it runs totally silent, which it makes it easy to forget. The ONLY danger with a canister is if you have a long power outage of over 24 hours, you don't want stagnant water returned to the tank when power is restored, so you need to take the canister off-line. I ran a canister filter for 11 years on my reef without a single incident.

A HOB filter is easy to reach, easy to swap media and pretty much trouble free....salt creep can become an issue if you have too much splash.

The only real drawback of the HOB or canister, is that you need a HOB skimmer... and to date I haven't found one that's worth 2 cents.
 

pstanley

Member
Thanks for the detailed response. It looks like I will go with a sump (with protein skimmer) and some sort of biological media (whether it be bioballs or some other type of media). Unfortunately my tank is not drilled so I will be using an overflow box. I wondered why everybody was so against wet/dry filters regarding the nitrates.....I thought I was missing something. It seems like it would be relatively easy to keep them clean by rinsing them. Regarding mechanical filtration, will the overflow/sump be enough to remove things "floating around" in the tank or do I need to add a HOB filter as well....or do these particulates eventually just sink where they will be sucked up with the next water change? Sorry for all of the questions...it seems like so much as changed since my last saltwater tank in 2002 :-(
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396478/confused-about-filtration#post_3532696
Thanks for the detailed response. It looks like I will go with a sump (with protein skimmer) and some sort of biological media (whether it be bioballs or some other type of media). Unfortunately my tank is not drilled so I will be using an overflow box. I wondered why everybody was so against wet/dry filters regarding the nitrates.....I thought I was missing something. It seems like it would be relatively easy to keep them clean by rinsing them. Regarding mechanical filtration, will the overflow/sump be enough to remove things "floating around" in the tank or do I need to add a HOB filter as well....or do these particulates eventually just sink where they will be sucked up with the next water change? Sorry for all of the questions...it seems like so much as changed since my last saltwater tank in 2002 :-(
You don't need the bioballs in the filter. They have gotten a reputation for bing nitrate factories because their entire principle is that the water, flowing over the bioballs, is highly oxygenated, which favors the formation of nitrates. This is a good thing, since the nitrates are made from the more toxic nitrites and ammonia in the water. However, that last step of nitration formation will take place adequately on the surface of your live rock and all other surfaces, so you really don't have to worry about it. Since your tank will have 60 lb of lr, assuming that it is highly porous, there will be anaerobic spaces where nitrates will be converted to nitrogen gas, minimizing the levels of nitrates left in the tank. This is a slow process, so you may still get nitrate accumulation. That's one of the reasons we recommend regular water changes. Keep asking questions - you will be far more successful if you make your mistakes here, rather than in your tank.
 

pstanley

Member
So I should be able to cycle (and maintain) the tank with nothing but live rock (no other biological media) and a sump/skimmer?
 

deejeff442

Active Member
i have run tanks for 30 years.i keep it simple. a sump mostly to add water volumn and hide equiptment. alot of rock and flow. adding fish slowly over time.
 

pstanley

Member
Ok, makes sense. Looks like I finally have some direction as to what I want/need to do :) Thanks everybody.
 

deejeff442

Active Member
i have played around with all kinds of filtration.i ran a wet/dry for 15 yrs ,never had an issue.except the noise.also turf scrubbers,macro ect.. i never once saw a difference in water or algae. i have always kept a light bioload.i suppose if you are stocking the tank heavy extra filtration would help.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396478/confused-about-filtration#post_3532696
Thanks for the detailed response. It looks like I will go with a sump (with protein skimmer) and some sort of biological media (whether it be bioballs or some other type of media). Unfortunately my tank is not drilled so I will be using an overflow box. I wondered why everybody was so against wet/dry filters regarding the nitrates.....I thought I was missing something. It seems like it would be relatively easy to keep them clean by rinsing them. Regarding mechanical filtration, will the overflow/sump be enough to remove things "floating around" in the tank or do I need to add a HOB filter as well....or do these particulates eventually just sink where they will be sucked up with the next water change? Sorry for all of the questions...it seems like so much as changed since my last saltwater tank in 2002 :-(

Hi,

I have a 90g with a 40g sump/refugium with a CPR overflow. (the refugium is just extra water, I have nothing in it) I have seahorses, which a very, very piggy eaters. I do run a HOB to catch the big stuff, but the only thing I have for filtration is the in-sump skimmer and macroalgae. My sump just adds water volume and that wonderful skimmer. I HATE HOB skimmers, I have never found one I liked.

My 56g Only has a HOB filter and macroalgae, no skimmer at all. both have chillers because seahorses like it cold.
 

pstanley

Member
I don't plan on stocking heavily but it definately will not be light either. I have three kids that want to see a lot of movement lol. Now my issue is finding a sump/skimmer that will fit into my stand :-(
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396478/confused-about-filtration#post_3532735
I don't plan on stocking heavily but it definately will not be light either. I have three kids that want to see a lot of movement lol. Now my issue is finding a sump/skimmer that will fit into my stand :-(
Nobody ever plans on stocking heavily, but then one day you go into the lfs and there is the perfect fish, the holy grail fish, the dream, and it is eating like an NFL linebacker and you know you just have to have it. Then a month later, there is another one... You see where this is going? Plan on a heavier bioload, even if you don't achieve it. I agree with deejeff, the simpler the better, until my curiosity gets the better of me and I just have to try some new technique (it is called a hobby, not a business for a reason). My main display is FOWLR, and is still run off of the same wet/dry sump I have used for 18 years with no problems. My reef uses a sump with an algae scrubber attached, and also works well. Just go slowly, and ask lots of questions, as you are doing.
 

pstanley

Member
That is definately true...I can't tell you how many times in the past that one fish has changed my whole tank. Of course the one fish I want is always something that is either too large, too aggressive, or only eats some rare organism only found in 2 parts of the world.
 

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396478/confused-about-filtration#post_3532752
That is definately true...I can't tell you how many times in the past that one fish has changed my whole tank. Of course the one fish I want is always something that is either too large, too aggressive, or only eats some rare organism only found in 2 parts of the world.
This sounds like a call for a road trip
 
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