Converting cc to Southdown sand
- Thread starter lm
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lordofthereef
Member
well first off, get alot of buckets!! save as much water as you can. put your fish into a couple of those buckets. put your live rock into a cooler with a wet towel on top(water from the tank). take out the cc and replace with southdown. also, make sure you clean clean and clean even better!! that southdown can be some dusty stuff!! after you clean REALLY GOOD, put it in the tank and then put everything back together. have fun, and good luck! 
kris walker
Active Member
It seems to be talked about a lot on this board. A search might turn up with info quicker rather than waiting for replies. But with regard to rinsing, I agree with Lord in that you should rinse the new sand real good before putting it in your tank. You just never know what sort of contaminants you might find in it, and it will help prevent a 2-7 day period of cloudiness as the silt gets trapped in the water column when you dump the sand in the tank.
Some will say that you are removing benefitial stuff from your sand before it becomes a DSB, including well-known hobbiests like Dr. Ron. I think this is hogwash, and that even if the silt was important, it would have just dissolved as soon as your DSB goes anerobic anyway, and once it would have been dissolved, larger pieces of arragonite will start to dissolve in its place. See what I mean? Its a self-replenishing system that can easily afford to lose the initial silt before going in your tank.
EDIT: oh, forgot to mention that if you don't rinse, you will most likely lose most of your silt to the water-column cloudiness as soon as you dump it in anyway (unless you put it in a dry tank, then cover with paper, then pour water in).
Sorry, probably more than you wanted to read, but just trying to help, and just my opinion,
kris
Some will say that you are removing benefitial stuff from your sand before it becomes a DSB, including well-known hobbiests like Dr. Ron. I think this is hogwash, and that even if the silt was important, it would have just dissolved as soon as your DSB goes anerobic anyway, and once it would have been dissolved, larger pieces of arragonite will start to dissolve in its place. See what I mean? Its a self-replenishing system that can easily afford to lose the initial silt before going in your tank.
EDIT: oh, forgot to mention that if you don't rinse, you will most likely lose most of your silt to the water-column cloudiness as soon as you dump it in anyway (unless you put it in a dry tank, then cover with paper, then pour water in).
Sorry, probably more than you wanted to read, but just trying to help, and just my opinion,
kris
scubanole
Member
I changed over just over a week ago. I drained most of the water into a trash can I got just for that purpose. I then put all my snails and LR into the trash can along with a PH. Next removed the CC and added the sand. I did not rinse and it was clear the next morning. After the sand was added I then put the water back and put the rock, snails, and shrimp back into the tank. Everything has worked great so far. Make sure all critters are out of the tank. I forgot my shrimop and thought I had buried him , but he was ok. Good luck. I can't wait to start seeing results of the sand, how long does it take weeks or months???
whipple
Member
South Down is cleaned and sterilized so thats not a problem, but go buy a rubber maid tub and rinse it till the water is fairly clear- it contains grains so small dust like even that if you dont you'll get a layer of foam on the top of your water, by using the tub you'll have a minimal amount of cloudiness that will filter out the fastest. Also take some of your CC and fill the legs of panty hose and leave them on the sand to transfer bacteria and any critters that you may have in your CC
kris walker
Active Member
Glad to hear everything is working out well Scubanole!
And whipple, being sterilized is great, but that doesn't get rid of inorganic or non-living organic contaminants. If it is "cleaned" by rinsing, then that would help remove them. How do you know it is cleaned and sterilized? Did you talk to a Southdown rep or read it on a label somewhere? Just curious, that's all.
Here is a clip of a recent post by Ratbattey regarding this. It has good information in it regarding Southdown:
"I won't bore you with the details, but I have done a bunch of research on this. I have used several tons of Southdown in maint. set ups that I run. Carib Sea and Southdown sand are the same sand from the same source. They both come from the same "mine" in the Bahamas. Carib Sea buys it from the same people as Southdown does, they are just a repacker. It is kept in a yard next to marble chips, and you will often find them in the Southdown, as well as the Carib Sea. I once found a crushed pop can in a bag. I screen the sand and then rinse it in large containers with a slow flow of fresh water that gently overflows the container. I don't know if the rinsing really helps, but it makes me feel better."
I hope you don't mind me pasting it here Ratbattey.
kris
And whipple, being sterilized is great, but that doesn't get rid of inorganic or non-living organic contaminants. If it is "cleaned" by rinsing, then that would help remove them. How do you know it is cleaned and sterilized? Did you talk to a Southdown rep or read it on a label somewhere? Just curious, that's all.
Here is a clip of a recent post by Ratbattey regarding this. It has good information in it regarding Southdown:
"I won't bore you with the details, but I have done a bunch of research on this. I have used several tons of Southdown in maint. set ups that I run. Carib Sea and Southdown sand are the same sand from the same source. They both come from the same "mine" in the Bahamas. Carib Sea buys it from the same people as Southdown does, they are just a repacker. It is kept in a yard next to marble chips, and you will often find them in the Southdown, as well as the Carib Sea. I once found a crushed pop can in a bag. I screen the sand and then rinse it in large containers with a slow flow of fresh water that gently overflows the container. I don't know if the rinsing really helps, but it makes me feel better."
I hope you don't mind me pasting it here Ratbattey.
kris
whipple
Member
Actually I did both, (talked to rep – and its stated on the bag) when I was working with Home Depot to bring me some South Down to Fresno. The rep was no real help unless I wanted to by pallet quantity and that was out of the question (only cause of shipping cost) so the saga went on with HD, but anyways the rinsing is good, my first one i did not rinse and developed a foam lather type mess on the top and was quite along time to clear up the dust like storm, i added sand to the same tank today (South Down) and rinsed it well first and the tank did not develop the foam and is fairly clear now, But to be fair i did add another filter to the system.
B
bt_1999_66
Guest
I have to disagree on the 2-7 day cloud....
No. 1 - In my 110 Gallon tank I added 40 lbs of Aragonite and the "Dust Cloud" only lasted 4-5 Hours.... Next day it was Crystal Clear...
In my 30 gallon Eclipse (I think it's 30 gallon), with only the Hood Biowheel filtration, no micron bags, foams, any other filters.... It only lasted about 6 hours... Then Crystal clear....
About what may be in the sand.... I don't know if you got the Pure Caribbean Aragonite Brand, but If you read through the Mineral content, you would be washing away several other good things.... <img src="graemlins//yell.gif" border="0" alt="[yell]" /> <img src="graemlins//yell.gif" border="0" alt="[yell]" /> <img src="graemlins//yell.gif" border="0" alt="[yell]" />
No. 1 - In my 110 Gallon tank I added 40 lbs of Aragonite and the "Dust Cloud" only lasted 4-5 Hours.... Next day it was Crystal Clear...
In my 30 gallon Eclipse (I think it's 30 gallon), with only the Hood Biowheel filtration, no micron bags, foams, any other filters.... It only lasted about 6 hours... Then Crystal clear....
About what may be in the sand.... I don't know if you got the Pure Caribbean Aragonite Brand, but If you read through the Mineral content, you would be washing away several other good things.... <img src="graemlins//yell.gif" border="0" alt="[yell]" /> <img src="graemlins//yell.gif" border="0" alt="[yell]" /> <img src="graemlins//yell.gif" border="0" alt="[yell]" />
kris walker
Active Member
Thanks for the info Whipple. I learn something new every day. I wish there was Southdown in CA.
kris
kris
B
bt_1999_66
Guest
Chase this down.....
<a href="http://www.ffexpress.com/live_rock/aragonite.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ffexpress.com/live_rock/aragonite.htm</a>
I think you can get this for $11 for 40 lbs....
This is what I have, and it's working great....
<img src="graemlins//yell.gif" border="0" alt="[yell]" />
<a href="http://www.ffexpress.com/live_rock/aragonite.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ffexpress.com/live_rock/aragonite.htm</a>
I think you can get this for $11 for 40 lbs....
This is what I have, and it's working great....
<img src="graemlins//yell.gif" border="0" alt="[yell]" />
kris walker
Active Member
How you put the sand in will greatly affect how much cloudiness there is IMO. If you just dump it into the water, which allows all the water to flow through it as it sinks to bottom, you will get lots of suspended sediment (silt, clay). If you somehow shield it from this, like say using a cup to bring it from top of water to the bottom, then slowly pouring it onto bottom, then yes, you won't get a lot of cloudiness. It really isn't rocket science. I have been assuming one extreme the whole time--you just flat dump the stuff in. There are of course better ways of doing it that will minimize suspended sediment. The best way to it, if one is that motivated, is to suck out all the water from the tank, then put the sand into the tank, rocks on top, a layer of saran wrap on top of the whole thing, then slowly add the water into the tank. When done, remove saran wrap.
BT, could you please tell me what other minerals besides arragonite you could be washing away? Really, I may be missing something. And also, I assume since you say rinsing would be washing it away, that these minerals are only contained in the dust, not in the arragonite sand grains themselves, which would be released at a later time in the anerobic part of the DSB.
kris
BT, could you please tell me what other minerals besides arragonite you could be washing away? Really, I may be missing something. And also, I assume since you say rinsing would be washing it away, that these minerals are only contained in the dust, not in the arragonite sand grains themselves, which would be released at a later time in the anerobic part of the DSB.
kris
kris walker
Active Member
We are both posting too fast.
Thanks for the link, that helps me understand the other minerals you were referring to. But it sounds to me that these things are included in the grains themselves since they say their product is a
"Special blend of uniform graded sand particles sized between approximately 0.18 and 1.2mm for:"
Silt and clay (which makes up the cloudiness) is way smaller than 0.18 mm (silt is 0.06-0.004 mm; clay is smaller than 0.004 mm). In fact, it is microscopic and you can't see it with the
[hr]
eye.
All I'm saying is that yes you may be washing some trace minerals away with some arragonite silt, but all hope is not lost because when the meltdown begins in the anerobic DSB, you will be melting the 0.18-1.2 mm grains, which should have the same basic chemical composition as the silt/clay.
By now, you've probably posted anther response, so sorry if this is now moot.
kris
Thanks for the link, that helps me understand the other minerals you were referring to. But it sounds to me that these things are included in the grains themselves since they say their product is a
"Special blend of uniform graded sand particles sized between approximately 0.18 and 1.2mm for:"
Silt and clay (which makes up the cloudiness) is way smaller than 0.18 mm (silt is 0.06-0.004 mm; clay is smaller than 0.004 mm). In fact, it is microscopic and you can't see it with the
[hr]
eye.
All I'm saying is that yes you may be washing some trace minerals away with some arragonite silt, but all hope is not lost because when the meltdown begins in the anerobic DSB, you will be melting the 0.18-1.2 mm grains, which should have the same basic chemical composition as the silt/clay.
By now, you've probably posted anther response, so sorry if this is now moot.
kris
B
bt_1999_66
Guest
Kris,
I will answer the simple question as far as to not go to extremes, in terms f adding the sand....
You may use a clear plastic tube, a syphon, and a cup....Self explanatory...!
As far as the Minerals that you maybe washing away, I take it you have not taken the time to READ the link above...
Well I'm not a Mineral Guru, but my MOTIVATION does not allow me to do the opposite of what the instructions tell me to do....
Maybe thats the reason why some have a 5-7 day cloud.
And BTW I posted the link above, thus you stated that in CA you could not get any Southdown... You're Welcome...!
I will answer the simple question as far as to not go to extremes, in terms f adding the sand....
You may use a clear plastic tube, a syphon, and a cup....Self explanatory...!
As far as the Minerals that you maybe washing away, I take it you have not taken the time to READ the link above...
Well I'm not a Mineral Guru, but my MOTIVATION does not allow me to do the opposite of what the instructions tell me to do....
Maybe thats the reason why some have a 5-7 day cloud.
And BTW I posted the link above, thus you stated that in CA you could not get any Southdown... You're Welcome...!
B
bt_1999_66
Guest
It is...!
kris walker
Active Member
Not yet it isn't.
Yea, I read the whole page before I posted. And everything I said stands. Maybe you didn't get what I am saying, still, but arragonite sand is not pure arragonite. It has other trace stuff in it.
Do whatever you want to, I'm just trying to help other people by using common sense and what I learned in my career so far, and then explaining my reasoning.
EDIT: thanks for the link, really. I will probably purchase that when I switch over to a DSB.
Now it is!
kris
Yea, I read the whole page before I posted. And everything I said stands. Maybe you didn't get what I am saying, still, but arragonite sand is not pure arragonite. It has other trace stuff in it.
Do whatever you want to, I'm just trying to help other people by using common sense and what I learned in my career so far, and then explaining my reasoning.
EDIT: thanks for the link, really. I will probably purchase that when I switch over to a DSB.
Now it is!
kris
B
bt_1999_66
Guest
Can't we all just get along.....!
That's one of the reasons why I stopped posting for a long time.... You disagree with the wrong person, and all h_ll breaks loose...
I did not mean to flame anyone....
My sincere apologies...
That's one of the reasons why I stopped posting for a long time.... You disagree with the wrong person, and all h_ll breaks loose...
I did not mean to flame anyone....
My sincere apologies...
kris walker
Active Member
I'm sorry, I thought you were borderline flaming. I was probably being too sensitive.
Cheers,
kris
Cheers,
kris