Copper for a month and now Ick is back!

[spudaddy]

My 75 gal. fish have been in coppersafe for a month and now after being back in the main tank for 5 or 6 days they are showing signs of ick again - not as bad as the last time but dangit!
Here's the list: Mandarin, sleeper goby, firefish, flame angel, Koran angel(juvi), blue tang, royal gramma
Yellow tang is in hospital tank being treated with Maracyn2.
Did this ick come back from the fish due to stress or what? Water parameters are good. Get them out again and try hypo? This will make 2 months or so! Cleaner shrimp is ok to leave in the tank again right? Another month of treatment and then I put them back in the main tank again and a few days later ick all over again? What do I do? Very frustrating!!!

 

[beth]

Spud...I guess you're just ventilating here, cause you certainly already know what you have to do... You got it right!

 

[spudaddy]

Thanks for the replys guys!! I did test the copper daily - sometimes twice daily! upon every water change and water adding! All of these fish plus 2 more were treated in a 55 gallon tank - FO tank. My 75 gal.(their home tank) has lr/ls/corals(small) - a wetdry/uv sterilizer/and no nitrates. A coral beauty died 3 weeks into treatment and my yellow tang is in Maracyn2 HT. His redness is gone but he still won't eat. Dropping the salinity now to 1.009 over 2 day period. Refractometer due in via UPS tomorrow.
I looked at all the fish tonight and ick is not as bad on some fish as yesterday and worse on the flame angel. These guys are hard to get out of the tank - even with a net! Seems like I'm stressing them anytime I move'em.
These guys were in a separate tank for 30 days in coppersafe and looking and eating great! All signs of copper were gone! Mandarin was even doing great! His mature tank has much more for him to eat in it! Back in the tank they go and 3 or 4 days later - Wham! Ick again! I haven't tried hyposalinity because it has been difficult trying to find a glass hydrometer or refractometer. I hate to use the plastic with the swing needle for something so specific like 0.002 margin for error on these fish. I wish this website had links for customers who are looking for stuff like this! My LFS just laughed and said what do you want with one of those! Their good people though - just into selling fish more than tending fish!
Is this a common occurrence for ick to come back after hypo? Will it ever go away and stay gone?

 

[babyfish]

Spudaddy's wife here.
I just wanted to update you guys on the ick situation. As you know our yellow tang is not doing well. We have him in ht and have been treating him with maracyn 2 for 3 days now for red streaks on his fin. Before this he had black ick which we treated with a freshwater dip and coppersafe which didn't work because he has it again. Terry B was on the mark when he said that coppersafe was crap because now I have seen it for myself and I will never use it again. We haven't gotten the fish out of the 75 gal yet because we are trying to figure out where to put them. The origional plan was to leave the 55 gal fishless for a month just to insure no ick was left in the tank but since we have 8 fish to treat (yellow tang is being kept seperate because of his condition) and only a 29 and a 10 gal tank we are debating putting them back into the 55 gal. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. The yellow tang hasn't eaten in a while and was just laying on his side tonight I decided to feed him garlic soaked food with a baby syringe. He ate a little and spit a little out. We dropped the salinity another 4 points so now it's down to .016. He dosen't seem to be breathing as heavly but he is still very ill. We are still waiting on the refractometer to come in. Hopefully it will be here tomorow.Urgh!!!! Anyway we need to take action on the other 8 fish tomorow. We will start hyposalinity on them too. Any idea on where to put them? Hyposalinity does work on black ick too right? Should I try to feed the yellow tang twice a day since he dosn't eat that much with the baby syringe? Sorry this was so long.

 

[babyfish]

One more ? Should we do a freshwater dip on the fish before transfering them to ht? What about the yellow tang? Should we do a freshwater dip on him even though he is practically listless?

 

[beth]

I would recommend just hyposalinity for everyone, unless you are very secure in your ability with FW dips and have had successes with it.
I don't know how long you have been dropping salinity to achieve hypo, but this can be done completely within a 24 hour period. Remember to leave the tank lights off on the Tang tank that is being treated with antibiotics. At this point, with the tang, it is more important to get him eating rather than trying to give him garlic food. So, if you can get him to eat wo using garlic, go that route.
If you follow hypo procedures carefully and don't rush returning your treated fish back to the main tank, then you should acheive very good results with this treatment.
Be sure to maintain good water quality, especially in the antibotic tank. When I treat with antibotics, I do water changes before administering each dose. Maintain above average gas exchange in the tanks with lots of aeration. Tangs especially benefit greatly from high aeration even when they're not sick.
[ September 28, 2001: Message edited by: Beth ]

 

[babyfish]

Refractometer came in today so I will start hyposalinity on the other 7 fish as soon as I figure out where to put them. We completly broke down the 55 after we got all the fish out of it about a week ago. There is no substrate now. Do yellow headed sleeper gobys need sand to sift? We have a fully cycled wet dry and I was wondering if we dropped the salinity in the tank will it kill all of the good bacteria? How many points should you drop the salinity at one time? Is it better to do it quickly? I should drop it down to .009 right and how long should I keep it there? Also what is the prefered ph?
I know my yellow tang has black ick really bad. I can see it in his gills and even his mouth. We are performing hyposalinity on him but will that cure the black ick? I really want do do a fw dip on him to give him some releif but he isn't even moving. Should I hold off on the dip? He refuses to eat on his own so I am having to use the baby dropper just to get some food in him. Should I feed him twice a day since he isn't eating very much? The lights on the tank are off and we have a black trash bag over the tank to prevent light from getting into him. Is black ick what is causing him to not eat and be so lithargic or is it something else? He is just laying there on his side. Fw dips are only for 3 min. right?
When we start treating the other fish should we throw some maracyn 2 in there with them to prevent a bacterial infection? Please. I really need some answers.

 

[blueberryboomer]

Has anyone heard of or ever used Probiotic Marine Formula? Its copper=free and reef and invert safe. The bottle says Full-spectrum Disease Prevention. We normally use garlic to treat ick but the last time our tomato clown got it we tryed this stuff in the qt and his ick seemed to go away. This stuff is for preventions but I thought I'd try it and it worked. Just thought I'd see if anyone has used it before. Lisa

 

[beth]

Take the trash bag off the tank. The fish needs some semblance of reality. Just keep the hood lights off. Do you know how to do FW dips? If you are not exp with this, then I'd suggest you not do this.
Hypo is not effective on black ick. What makes you think it is black ick. In any case, copper is a better choice to treat black ick.
You need to drop the salinity for hypo to 1,009, not, 009. This is done over a 24 hour period and you need to be the judge about how much depending on your fishes' reaction to the drop. I would suggest more frequent small drops in salinity to less large drops.
The PH of the water needs to remain consistently the same as what is in the fishes regular environment, so keep an eye on this as you drop salinity.