Coral help!

[FloridaGrown]

Hey everyone! I am new-ish to the saltwater hobby and I have a few questions. When I first started out I bought a few cheap coral frags before doing research. I was wondering if anyone could ID them for me . Also I went on vacation for two weeks a while back and no maintenance was done on the tank while I was gone. When I came back the tank had a bit of algae and most of the corals closed up or died off. I've been back for almost 4 weeks now and things have stabilized but the corals have not all opened up. Anyone know what may be the cause of this?
About the tank
It's a 10 gallon standard than nothing fancy.
I have two 24" true lumen light strips , 12,000k and 453nm blue at half power about 6 inches above the tank.
Also I have a small power head and an aqueoun filter . I do not have a heater but I live in Florida so it doesn't get cold. Temp stays between 78-80
The water parameters were all good except my ph was 7.8 and my only my nitrate was high.. 40ppm. Could these be the cause ? Any help would be great thanks ! I'm on my phone so I can only add one pic I'll try to add more

 

[FloridaGrown]

Another one these have open back up but still need ID

 

[Kristin1234]

First one looks like some zoanthids and the second d one some type of button polyps.

 

[Kristin1234]

Calcium, alkalinity and magnesium levels?

 

[mandy111]

High phosphate can hinder corals. What are you phosphate tests ?

 

[FloridaGrown]

Calcium, alkalinity and magnesium levels?

My calcium was 420ppm, phosphate was 0, alkalinity was 125.3ppm magnesium was not in either of my kits

 

[flower]

My calcium was 420ppm, phosphate was 0, alkalinity was 125.3ppm magnesium was not in either of my kits

Hi,

If you do regular water changes using a reef salt mix, you don't even need to bother testing the magnesium level. Keep phosphates and nitrates as close to 0 as possible, and feed a good coral food once a week with the skimmer off for 24 hours. Good lighting and good maintenance, your corals will flourish.

#1 rule: Don't dose anything until you have done tests, and determine if you even need to.

I found that if I balance the Alkalinity, the PH will fall into place. Also, PH changes throughout the day, lowest when lights are first turned on, and highest just before lights are turned off in the evening. So the PH reading depends on the time of day you test, that means that if you tested in the morning, your PH at 7.8 is still just fine. You can set up a refugium, and keep macroalgae in it with the lights on at night to help keep PH up, I have read of people on this site doing that, I personally never did.

 

[mandy111]

Hi,

If you do regular water changes using a reef salt mix, you don't even need to bother testing the magnesium level. Keep phosphates and nitrates as close to 0 as possible, and feed a good coral food once a week with the skimmer off for 24 hours. Good lighting and good maintenance, your corals will flourish.

#1 rule: Don't dose anything until you have done tests, and determine if you even need to.

I found that if I balance the Alkalinity, the PH will fall into place. Also, PH changes throughout the day, lowest when lights are first turned on, and highest just before lights are turned off in the evening. So the PH reading depends on the time of day you test, that means that if you tested in the morning, your PH at 7.8 is still just fine. You can set up a refugium, and keep macroalgae in it with the lights on at night to help keep PH up, I have read of people on this site doing that, I personally never did.

Hi, Flower
I have to say once again i disagree with not having to test mag.
Mag is the stabilizer to Alk & cal. They are all intertwined, if he is having problems with corals I would strongly suggest a mag test would be in order.
Yes regular water changes help maintain, but does not guarantee stability of any of the parameters.
EG. how do you know the salt mix has not been mixed properly in the bucket to start with and is uneven, I believe you should test all new water levels before the change including Mag.

 

[flower]

Hi, Flower
I have to say once again i disagree with not having to test mag.
Mag is the stabilizer to Alk & cal. They are all intertwined, if he is having problems with corals I would strongly suggest a mag test would be in order.
Yes regular water changes help maintain, but does not guarantee stability of any of the parameters.
EG. how do you know the salt mix has not been mixed properly in the bucket to start with and is uneven, I believe you should test all new water levels before the change including Mag.

Hi,

I agree magnesium is important...if a person is doing regular water changes with a good reef salt mix, the magnesium levels are constantly being replenished to the right level. A test kit will just verify that the salt mix was correct on the level it says on the side of the box/bucket. I had a reef for 14 years, I had a test kit for magnesium... every time I tested magnesium, it was right on the money...every single time. The test kit was a waste of money, and effort. I used Instant ocean reef crystals. I always churned my salt mix for 24 hours, I never worried if I "mixed" it properly, it just was. So if the original poster uses a reef salt mix and does regular water changes, there is no reason to worry with testing the magnesium.

If it isn't broke, don't fix it...original poster is not having problems with the corals except that the nitrates are high. If your car is running poorly, and you know that the gas filter is kind of clogged up, why take it to a mechanic who charges you to test it to see what's wrong, you already know what is wrong. Fix the clogged filter first, and then if the car still runs poorly, then check other causes. Original poster has polyps and zoas, not exactly the SPS corals that needs all the fancy care. A magnesium test kit is at this point just a waste of money. Let him/her concern themselves with getting the 40ppm nitrates down to an acceptable level, instead of running out for another kind of test kit. 40ppm nitrates is enough to kill inverts, let alone corals. The Alk nor cal need to be stabilized, that isn't the problem.

 

[mandy111]

Thank for your resonse
BUT once again we seem to disagree (happens a lot to us )
I recently watched a video from Mr Saltwater tanks he had a client with problem with his tank that he was called out to diagnose. No it wasnt nitrates, and if nitrates are this guys only issue then well and good. But you have to remember that other people are reading these posts too, and you made a very broad statement to anyone that reads it.

Dont have to test MAG.


this tank owner was doing his wc every week as suggested by everyone and eventually after labs testing and weeks of tying to figure this out the problem was as follows
The owner of the tank had bought quite a few salt buckets, he was mixing it well and correctly.
But the buckets had been sitting for quite some time and some of the different lets call them "grain size powder"within the salt had settled in different spots in the bucket. EG larger particles had settled on the bottom of the bucket and lighter ones had loaded the top of the bucket. So every time he mixed water it was out of wack.
He suggest that not only do / should we test every single batch of salt we mix for our reef tanks but we should also removed a certain amount and actually turn the bucket lots of times to re mix it well before using it to stop this sort of think happening. Which he believes happens quite a bit.

I honestly believe your being a little irresponsible suggesting that a mag test kit is a waste of money and its not necessary to anyone who happens to read this post.
So I still say, test test test. before any water change

 

[pegasus]

I'd like to intervene... without getting my head ripped off, please. I kind of agree with both flower and mandy. It's best to check levels to make sure all of the primary elements are in proper proportions. That said, I can tell just by looking at the posters' alk and cal levels that magnesium isn't an issue. If magnesium was low, either alkalinity, calcium, or both would also be low. As long as alk and cal are within specs, mag is almost guaranteed to be within specs as well. Since zoas and protos don't have calcified skeletons, the demand for calcium carbonate should be fairly low in this tank, with the exception of coralline algae and however many shelled inverts you can cram into a 10 gallon tank. This is purely based on experience, and not something that I'd expect a new hobbyist to know. IF the poster is using Reef Crystals, more than likely they will have a high magnesium level if regular water changes are applied. On the other hand, there are MANY salt mixes that have a LOW magnesium content. The only way to know what your salt mix contains is to test it for the "Big 3"... alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium. Mandy made a good point about bucket salt and the grains separating. Settling of contents has always been an issue with bucket salt, and it should always be mixed before use.

My theory is that it's high nitrate. I think a large water change to get trates down below 5ppm will do wonders for the corals. Not sure even xenia wouldn't fare well 40ppm. Just my 2c...

 

[bang guy]

I'd like to also intervene a little, just a little.

"Since zoas and protos don't have calcified skeletons, the demand for calcium carbonate should be fairly low in this tank"

I disagree with this statement in general, perhaps not in this specific scenario though. The OP doesn't have an abundance of Zoanthids so carbonate and Calcium consumption is probably low just like it would be low with a system containing only a few SPS corals.

My disagreement is with the idea that Zoanthids and other corals without hard skeletons don't consume Carbonate and Alkalinity. My experience and extensive testing has shown me the opposite. Zoanthids and many soft bodied corals actually consume Carbonate and Calcium at a higher rate than many, perhaps most, Stony corals.


The other point I most strongly agree with. Testing and maintaining Magnesium. If you desire to maintain Magnesium at 1350ppm for example, a salt mix that mixes at a Mg level of 1350 is going to be insufficient. You will have to dose Magnesium.

 

[pegasus]

I'd like to also intervene a little, just a little.

"Since zoas and protos don't have calcified skeletons, the demand for calcium carbonate should be fairly low in this tank"

I disagree with this statement in general, perhaps not in this specific scenario though. The OP doesn't have an abundance of Zoanthids so carbonate and Calcium consumption is probably low just like it would be low with a system containing only a few SPS corals.

My disagreement is with the idea that Zoanthids and other corals without hard skeletons don't consume Carbonate and Alkalinity. My experience and extensive testing has shown me the opposite. Zoanthids and many soft bodied corals actually consume Carbonate and Calcium at a higher rate than many, perhaps most, Stony corals.


The other point I most strongly agree with. Testing and maintaining Magnesium. If you desire to maintain Magnesium at 1350ppm for example, a salt mix that mixes at a Mg level of 1350 is going to be insufficient. You will have to dose Magnesium.

Hmm... I thought most softies used silicate for supporting structure. Shows I still have a lot to learn...

As far as Magnesium goes, it's consumed at a far lower rate than calcium and alkalinity. If he's able to keep cal and alk at acceptable levels by simple water changes, then mag should never be an issue unless there's a low level in the salt mix to begin with. I go through a gallon each of alk and cal before I have to dose mag.

 

[bang guy]

The sclerites in the "stiffer" soft corals are Calcium carbonate. This includes Zoanthids, Leathers, Nepthia, etc.

 

[mandy111]

@pegasus I don't believe anyone would bite anyone's head off around here. I certainly hope you wouldn't think I was going to do that . Healthy discussion is what I like to call it. I am not sure about what you say - if cal & alk remaining steady it means mag is all ok. Would love to find out . I know mag keeps cal & alk steady but does it work the other way around ? I also find that a lot of people say mag usage is very small compared to other 2. But I just honestly don't find this at all. I have a lot of local reefers ( seems to be common theme of lots of large clams ) that also find their mag usage very high ? Would love to know if Clams may be responsible for this ?

 

[bang guy]

Any animal that rapidly builds skeleton will inadvertently consume Magnesium. Magnesium attaches to Calcium carbonate crystals. This effectively stops the crystal from growing. In an animal like a clam they continue to lay more shell over the Magnesium laden crystals already laid down. This Magnesium is lost to the system and will not return to the water column.

I do agree that it's difficult to maintain good Alkalinity and Calcium levels with low Magnesium but it's not impossible. So in general, if Carbonate and Calcium consumption appears normal then there is most likely adequate Magnesium.

What I was attempting to mention earlier is that if the saltwater used for water changes only had adequate Magnesium, like most salt mixes, then that isn't enough to maintain Magnesium levels in the system and additional Magnesium will need to be dosed.

 

[pegasus]

Sometimes it takes awhile for our convos to come full circle. LOL! That's the beauty of these discussions... a lot of topic material gets covered in the process. I'm sure that some of these posts can make reader's heads want to explode, but some of this information may actually stick to memory. What may seem like a lot of goobly-gook will one day make perfect sense. Kind of like one of those "AHA!" moments.

@pegasus I don't believe anyone would bite anyone's head off around here. I certainly hope you wouldn't think I was going to do that . Healthy discussion is what I like to call it. I am not sure about what you say - if cal & alk remaining steady it means mag is all ok. Would love to find out . I know mag keeps cal & alk steady but does it work the other way around ? I also find that a lot of people say mag usage is very small compared to other 2. But I just honestly don't find this at all. I have a lot of local reefers ( seems to be common theme of lots of large clams ) that also find their mag usage very high ? Would love to know if Clams may be responsible for this ?

I know venturing into a "heated" discussion between two women is a dangerous place, and that's why I started the post with that line. It works every time. Okay... sometimes. As for "if cal & alk remaining steady it means mag is all ok. Would love to find out", if magnesium falls below the recommended level, carbonate and calcium will start to precipitate out of the solution because they are bonding together in the water column. This will cause the levels of alk and cal to fall at a faster than normal rate. However, if one or the other seems to be unstable, the first thing to check is the magnesium level. I know all tanks are different, so elements are going to deplete at different rates. In my case, I dose 100mL each of alk and cal daily. Only after going through a gallon of each do I add magnesium, and it's minuscule compared to the proportions of alk and cal.

Any animal that rapidly builds skeleton will inadvertently consume Magnesium. Magnesium attaches to Calcium carbonate crystals. This effectively stops the crystal from growing. In an animal like a clam they continue to lay more shell over the Magnesium laden crystals already laid down. This Magnesium is lost to the system and will not return to the water column.

I do agree that it's difficult to maintain good Alkalinity and Calcium levels with low Magnesium but it's not impossible. So in general, if Carbonate and Calcium consumption appears normal then there is most likely adequate Magnesium.

What I was attempting to mention earlier is that if the saltwater used for water changes only had adequate Magnesium, like most salt mixes, then that isn't enough to maintain Magnesium levels in the system and additional Magnesium will need to be dosed.

Yes, there are magnesium ions trapped in calcium carbonate, however, the number of carbonate and calcium ions outnumber magnesium ions by quite a large margin. This simply translates into magnesium being used up at a far lesser rate.

Absolutely, if freshly mixed saltwater only had "adequate" levels of magnesium, it would be difficult to maintain the proper level even at low levels of calcium carbonate consumption... even if frequent water changes were performed. Fortunately, using Reef Crystals with elevated magnesium levels can virtually eliminate this problem with regular water changes. If not, it shouldn't take much additive to get it up to specs.