Cruel Introductory Quarantine Technique

I'm expecting to get flamed for this comment, but here goes.
It is sometimes better for one/few to suffer for the good of the masses. This has gotten me thinking a bit about parasites, stress and the introduction of new fish into closed environments. What if someone was to stress a fish a bit, on order to have them exhibit signs of parasite infestation or other illnesses? I have, for example, witnesses YTs being dipped in freshwater that seem to magically grow and shed black spots by the score. The fish are, of course, stressed in the process. However, this stress causes the parasites and/or ailments to surface.
This lead me to ponder the use of stress to induce signs of pre-existing medical conditions in fish, before introducing them to a closed system where they can infect others. Would this be a good idea, or is it just a cruel notion? For example, a quick freshwater dip of a YT before introduction into the Q-Tank might cause black spot to appear immediately, instead of weeks/months down the road. Would the same hold true for other parasites? What about strange illnesses (i.e. Red Sea disease). Would such stress also bring of illnesses like Vibrio, Brookynella, etc. that would otherwise stay dormant until they require difficult re-capture from our show reefs and subsequent isolation. Are there "Stress Techniqes" other than the common FW dip that can induce symptoms... especially for ailments other than parasites?
I guess that a "stress-Free" Q-Tank and 30 or so days of monitoring will often give the fish time to exhibit pre-existing symptoms brought to a boil after the stress of capture and shipping. I just wonder if there isn't a way to ENSURE that more illnesses/parasites have reared their ugly heads before they endanger all the inhabitants of our mini-reefs.
Just a crazy thought???
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Can you list for us the fish that are farm raised?
Is this because they are healthier or because of enviromental concerns? Both?
As for the "stress-test" I think that it is cruel, and also costly for your average home aquarist. Additionally, ideally you are striving for a stress-free environment in your home tank, one that is comfortable, safe, clean and well-maintained. Why then provoke a protential disease process to emerge in a newly acquired specimen that might never have a problem in your tank if you had left well enough alone? I'm in this hobby to enjoy fish not experiment with life. Also, stress in and of itself can stimulate a disease that would have never existed in the first place--a healthy immune system under the right circumstances can go awry given the wrong set of adverse environmental condidtions.
 

amphiprion

Member
Here is the list of captive raised marine fish that I have:
Most species of clownfish,
Neon Goby
Lime stripped Goby
Citron Goby
Seaweed Goby
Neon Dottyback
Orchid Dottyback
Purple Dottyback
Royal Dottyback
Diadema Dottyback
Seven species of giant clams, disc anemones, sea mats.
Breeders are also working on species of jawfishes, gobies, basslets, blennies, dragonets, dwarf angels.
List is from John Tullock's Natural Reef Aquariums.
Captive raised fish are raised in sterile environments that are as close to parasite free as possible. Also are normally much healthier when transported and put into our aquariums as they are used to being in a glass box. Also a note on the dottybacks - the tank raised variety tend to be much less agressive than their wild caught cousins.
[ June 21, 2001: Message edited by: Amphiprion ]
 

dr. jay

Member
TIP-- I think it is an absolutely fantastic idea. What is cruel about that??? You are bringing out inherent parasites, allowing them to develop immunity in a controlled (QT) ideal evironment. This reminds me of a vaccine of sorts (except the organisms thriving are alive)
These fish are to be assumed diseased !!!! Master Trey proved this to me time and time again... Since finally listening to him I have stopped flushing beautifl fish down the toilet. My oldest son 6 year old, stopped crying and has grown 2 inches in the last couple of months. :) My 2 year old has begun to potty train (probably he stopped smelling dead fish). My 4 year olddaughter continues t be perfect and still calls her P. Fridmani my "Little pink fishy". Even my patients have begun to be nicer to me (they crap out at 1:00 AM instead of 3:00 AM).
TIP--- The greatest thing you can have in science is imagination and creativity. Attempting to induce disease in a controlled environment and allowing them to be treated and develop immunity is an absolutely fantastic idea.
Now..... Trey.... what do you think about taking lots of ******... and heat killing them. (except that may denature their protein) Mixing it with food...... humm... perhaps creating a vaccine. Except I dont think eating dead ich would accomplish anything (wouldnt get absorbed). Perhaps if it were in the water the fish could be exposed to it..... Im just thinking.....
 
Hmmm....
Thanks for all the great replies. This board is the best! You guys have given me a lot of food for thought. I think that Beth has a point re: the cruelty aspect. I'm really excited by Jay's reply and would personally love to follow such ambitious experiments. Trey, as always, has excellent feedback. I think that one issue I have is that, at this point, breaking down my main reef to catch and "Q" a fish would be a very traumatic operation for the fish and inverts. I never meant to have SPSs, but now have hitch-hikers fusing together much of my rockwork. I've also got a lot of Mushrooms, LPSs, etc. all over the place. A mass die-off and resulting spike in wastes would occur, if I ever had to break my reef down.
I think that, were I to ever add a new fish to that system, I'd certainly go for a long quarantine. I just wonder if a long, stress-less Q-Tank stay would cause the fish to display all symptoms. I think that, at this point, I'd certainly have to weigh the cost capturing and treating one fish for a non-infectious illness against the impact that such a capture might have on the rest of the tank inhabitants.
Also, are there some species/conditions where the risk is so great that inducing a bit of stress upfront might be more humane in the long run? I'm thinking about fish like Hippos, YTs, Puffers, etc. that ARE infected and might go for a long time, if left unstressed, without showing symptoms. Would these fish benefit from a quick dip or other stress-inducing procedure?
In my aforementioned YT case, for example, Black Spot may live in small quantities for a very long time. The existance of these parasites must be stressful in the long-run. Every newly caught YT I've ever seen dipped has displayed these spots. I assume, as a result, that every YT has a bit of Black Spot. Thus, every YT is constantly under a bit of stress brom Black Spot. Would it be better to force these parasites to leave Dodge sooner, rather than later? I admit that my experience is limited and my observations certainly do not constitute a scientific survey, but I'll admit that I've personally been dipping every YT I or my friends have added to their systems for quite a while now. Given that I've heard of YT's displaying symptoms of Black Spot months after introduction, could it be more humane to induce and treat in advance?
[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: tangs_in_pacifica ]
 
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