crushed coral bad?

[btwk12]

when i first started my tank i was told by my lfs that crushed coral would work just fine in my tank. ive been reading threads about peoples tanks not doin good because they have c.c. instead of sand. my tank is doin fine right now but i wanna know what people think. my tanks been setup for about 6 months and i dont have a bunch of corals i have 12 frags. my question is can i slowly add a layer of sand on top maybe a quarter of the tank at a time so it doesnt lose the bacteria or should i pull it all out and redo while my corals are not that big yet? i also have 5 fishand 56 pounds live rock.

 

[cedarreef]

well, if you have LR already in the tank with the CC, I would leave a small layer to give the rock some more anchor, and slowly add sand over it.

 

[yearofthenick]

The reason cc is bad is because it is really good at storing garbage... that's basically the only thing cc does for you. Over time, you'll notice it kick up dust anytime there's surface movement. If you ever wanted to move your tank, you'd be likely guaranteeing the deaths of most of your fish, because as the cc moves, all the garbage it has collected will resurface and cause an ammonia spike.
Live sand is much better because it absorbs the detritus, and does an excellent job of filtering out the ammonia and nitrites. It also houses a lot of great detritus-eating pods and provides food for sand-sifting animals. Also, if you have cc, you can't put any sand sifting gobies in there otherwise they will die. You can't put any sand sifting starfish in there because they won't know what to do with the cc and they'll die.
Ok, now that you've had the history lesson, here's what I would do...
I would transfer all the live rock and animals to a bucket or something... just make sure there's swimming room and that all your live rock is fully submerged. Also, make sure you put a powerhead and heater in there because they'll need both. You should have a spare heater lying around when you do water changes anyway, because you can't put 65 degree clean water in an 80 degree tank. The sudden change in tank temp could shock the fish and kill them. Also, it's always good to have a spare powerhead lying around... you could get a cheap one from your LFS... I have a little $12 one that I use. I just throw it in there for some water flow and add the heater to keep them nice and warm.
the next thing I would do is take out the remaining tank water and KEEP the water... don't dump it.
Take out all your cc and replace it with live sand... the kind of live sand that comes in thick plastic bags filled with water.
Put everything back in.
You may or may not have an ammonia spike, but if you do, it will be very small. I have done this exact procedure with my daughters used 14gallon biocube and I didn't have any problems whatsoever. I think if the only thing you change is the sand, you'll be alright... hopefully your live rock will absorb whatever die-off that comes from the live sand... because it comes live, I don't think there will be much, which is what gave me the confidence to do it, and what gives me even more confidence to post this advice.
Hope this helps!

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by CedarReef
http:///forum/post/2719906
well, if you have LR already in the tank with the CC, I would leave a small layer to give the rock some more anchor, and slowly add sand over it.
You don't want to put sand over the cc because you'd be burying the garbage the cc has collected. The sand bed would do much better for you if it had the floor, as opposed to being on top of the cc.

 

[pnkflydlvr]

yeah the guy at my lfs told me the same thing and unfortunately, i listened to him. it holds tons of junk and nitrates. it also scrapes up bottom dwelling fish/inverts. from personal experience, i will never use this stuff again: i kinda lost interest in fish for a while, but i was too lazy to take the tank down, so it just sat there and never got cleaned. anyway, i'm setting up a new tank now and i did a nitrate test after learning more about cc on the old tank. my nitrates were at 160 ppm... lol.
i would just take out the cc. ur not gonna want to deal with it later on. if you put sand on top it will eventually mix in with the cc. sand looks nicer than cc, and works better as a substrate.
bottom line: get rid of the cc and replace it with live sand.

 

[btwk12]

so i do all that and then wait to c if my water tests out or should i let it cycle? or is that the purpose of the sand with the water in it already?

 

[btwk12]

i think it might b affecting my ph to its always low and im always fighting it

 

[nwdyr]

OMG leave the CC it's F-I-N-E!!! have had it for years , as with ANY THING to do with SWF you need to maintain it! do you'r normal Water changes and vac. the gravel where you can and it will be ok

they have been making and using it for years , It's a multi-million dollar industry and going strong..why? because it works. I think you will be more sorry if you start tearing it apart

JMO but like I said I have used it for years

 

[btwk12]

and thats another thing i was told to not vacum it because it would take the bacteria it needs out

 

[crazy4reefs]

this is a very touchy subject and this is just my own opinion and not the law. I just want to say that if your tank has been set up for 6 months with no problems then like they say if it aint broke dont fix it. As long as you test your water and do regular water changes and I would suggest that you vac. the cc when you do water changes. If everything is going well then I wouldnt mess with it. I could be wrong but if I remember correctly CC is suppose to help with your PH. I would not add any sand on top of the CC. There are a lot of things to consider if you have problems like filtration, powerheads, skimmers, number of fish and even kind of fish. I guess it comes down to what you like the looks of. Personally I like the look of sand better and I dont have to vac. it but I still need to make sure that I dont have a lot of debris and algae building up on it.
On a personal note- when I started out my lfs told me to go with cc and when I was reading on this board just about everywhere I looked everyone was saying to go with sand because of all the reasons you already read. So I did take my tank apart (which sucked) and took out all of the CC. I was really shocked at the ammount of debris that got stirred up when I was taking out the cc but I was new and also didnt truly understand how to take care of my tank. I think for new people sand is easier but like I said earlier If it aint broke dont fix it. I would never demand to anyone to take out their cc and change over to sand. there are to many diffrent things to take into consideration. So also like I said earlier, It really comes down to what you want and what you like. Just keep reading and asking questions, just learn as much as you can. This has been my own personal opinion!

 

[yearofthenick]

btwk12 - There are a LOT of people on here who think that CC is a time bomb waiting to happen. A select few prefer the cc look and will defend it's efficiency, but with live sand, you almost never have to vacuum... if you get some sandsifters in there, you'd be golden. The problem with cc is that it's high maintenance, and you need to stay on top of that maintenance or you will eventually have problems. I agree with the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" motto, and it works in 99% of the cases on this forum, but this is one that I would recommend fixing sooner than later... it's only a matter of time before the cc starts going to garbage (and by 'garbage' I mean detritus i.e. decomposing poop and decomposing leftover food that gets trapped inside of all the little shells and crevices of the substrate).
YES, the cc can be another workable means of substrate, but it comes with high maintenance. Everyone who has had cc, including nwdyr hopefully, will tell you that cc needs a good vacuuming very regularly. You just don't need to do that with live sand. In fact, some people even debate whether or not to vacuum sand at all... Personally, I've chosen not to vacuum my sand because I know I've got all kinds of good organisms in there that help with keeping the tank clean.
It all boils down to the look. If you like the cc look and are cool with doing a regular vaccum, then keep it. If you want a more efficient means of detritus absorption and esentially ZERO maintenance, go with live sand.
LAST THOUGHT : I also like live sand because that's what's in the ocean... I've been diving a couple of times and have never seen a cc look at the bottom of the ocean. I've dived and snorkeled mainly in the carribean, and once in cancun. It all looked like sand to me.

 

[nwdyr]

Sorry I am still going to defend the CC and disagree with the thought that it will cause a problem down the road. It seems for some reason people here don't like CC or bio balls

this is a high maintenance hobby! yes you need to vacc. the cc , but I also have a 40gal with LS and it is really hard , for me to Vacc. the LS and it DOES need it also. The only thing i find is I end up removing allot of sand when I do it! I like CC and I like the bio balls

Do allot of research and don't jump to do something just because some says something , I jumped on the idea that allot of people have around here about taking out the bio balls and putting LR rubble in..what a HUGE mistake!! Now I am slowly removing all the rubble rock and replacing with the bio balls

talk about a nitrate factory!!1 all the lR leaves debri at the bottom that you cant get to and that causes alllll kind of problems! I tend to listen to the pro's..ie... the manufacturer's of the bio cubes , I mean lets face it they know more then us ,that's why WE are buying them and THEY are making them. Also i have talked to guys that work at the Chicago Shed Aquarium. Not to say that some people here are not knowledgeable , they are ,but it just seems people jump on band wagons and before you know it they will have you totally changing a set up that was fine to start. Do you'r home work , here , and do some Google searches and then decide for yourself. We are all still learning no matter how many years into this we are and if anyone says they know "for sure" I would REALLY do research!

 

[yearofthenick]

I agree with nwdyr that it all comes down to preference. But I disagree with him when he suggests that I'm a part of a "Bandwagon," because I have a lot of experience with both cc and live sand.
I wanted to get into this hobby like 8 years ago but was really put off by the whole bio ball and wet/dry maintenance. A protein skimmer does an excellent job of oxygenating the water and also adds benefit in what it removes from the water, which you'd otherwise have to do by maintaining the bio-balls.
Outside of that, I have no idea about bio balls, but I HAVE done a lot of homework about the best approach to this hobby, and the general feel I've been getting from this forum, in addition to 3reef and bareefers forum, is that people look at bio balls and crushed coral like they look at neon jackets and double-pleated high-water pants... it's a thing of the 80's and 90's. More recently we've found the natural approach is far more efficient.
At the end of the day, we're re-creating one of the most perfectly balanced environments in the world - the ocean. I would rather use live sand from the ocean (since I'm creating the ocean environment) than manufactured coral, and I would rather use live rock to do my biological filtration (since that's what happens in the ocean) than manufactured bio-balls.
Just my opinion. btwk12, take what both of us are saying and form your own decisions. It's good that we're both on this thread because you get to see both sides of the spectrum on this topic.

 

[crazy4reefs]

btwk12, Like I said its a very touchy subject but dont be discouraged by it.
Like YearOfTheNick said atleast you were able to get some info from both sides of the subject. Like I said just keep asking questions and just keep reading so that you can make your own informed decision. There are many sides to this story some people even go with bare bottom tanks! when it comes down to it, its your tank and you are the one taking care of it. Like I said dont get discouraged because this is a great hobby that can bring a lot of joy to your life! good luck.

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by crazy4reefs
http:///forum/post/2720435
Like I said dont get discouraged because this is a great hobby that can bring a lot of joy to your life! good luck.
Agreed. This is an awesome hobby! And it's awesome that there are so many options... this gives you the chance to really make your tank you're own.

 

[iyachtuxivm]

I have been involved with/owned four tanks 3 cc 1 sand. Now first off I have not yet moved my newest tank the one with sand. But nitrates are always 0 ammonia is 0 all parameters are great except I can not get my ph up to where it "should" be 8.2-8.4 its 7.8-8.0. 1 point for cc. In the cc tanks ph is much better 8.3/4ish. so cc buffers water better than sand. 1st cc tank moved from friends house after set up spiked ammonia baddly used everthing from tank nothing new killed shrooms zoos hermits. Was set up for 2 years before that. Same tank leaked 1 year later put everything in a "new" tank spiked again killed most everything again! It does trap stuff even if you vacuum. I know I vacuumed weekly. 3rd tank is a friends had to move it I told him get rid of old cc go sand or new cc. He listened to a lfs who is a cc guy and said I was crazy it could never happen like that, so I said lets move it then. Everything is now dead. Ammoina spiked Nitrates at 180+ alk 16. It has taken 2 months for it to calm down nitrate still at 80 or so and wont go lower. My other cc "tank" is in the basement its a rubber maid container so Ill not go into it to deeply lets just say stuff is not happy in it. Its going bye bye when real frag tank is up. Fuge will have sand and nothing in the frag tank except frags. hope this helps like everyone says do research for yourself. If you like cc vac it and never move it.

 

[nwdyr]

One last thought , there is a local LFS here , old school shop been around for 20+yrs. They use only CC in ALL their tanks , I would guess about 75 s/w tanks. They have the best fish anywhere that I know of. If you'r nitrates or nitrites suddenly spike there is a reason for it. It may very well be the CC , if you never Vacc. it. It could also be those "natural" LR rumble you filled your filter with , if you never emptied them out and sucked all the debri out that forms under them ( talk about a HUGE job!!!) I know b/c I am in the process of doing that right now

I am sorry I did not mean to say that yearofthenick is part of the "bandwagon" i am sorry if you took it that way. Sometimes its very hard to go all "natural" just think about "natural" medicine those people always end up dead

Like I said before i just use what the pros around here use...LFS ( not all of them) the Shedd Aquarium etc. It works for me , and it could work for you , but what these guys are saying is also useful info , there is no right or wrong here. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you do!!

 

[novahobbies]

I'm still relatively new to saltwater, but I have to say I have two tanks: one with sand, the other with CC. Both tanks have a lot of LR in them. The CC tank is always fighting a slightly higher (20-30ppm) nitrate count than the tank with sand. But then, the tank with CC is a 37 gallon tank with seahorses in it, who are poop factories, so there's a very likely reason for the nitrate count.
This is simply my own personal preference, but I've discovered I like the look of sand better than CC. But there are a few things I noticed about the CC that you may consider. First, with regular siphoning of the top layer, the detritus stays minimal. Second, and this may be a biggie, I noticed there are quite a lot more 'pods in the tank with CC. All the nooks and crannies makes for a great place for them to hide and breed. My Dragonette is very fat and happy in that tank. Pods also help with the detritus, so there's another plus.
Honestly if you like the look of CC and are willing to deal with increased maintenance, then go for it. I think, after having experimented with both, I may remove the CC from mine and replace with sand. Not really worth the hassle for me, but that's just my .02. Your milage may vary.

 

[btwk12]

i like the look of sand way better so i better start changing it out before i get to much in there i just added a toadstool leather today