CuC without crabs

[emtguy]

Guys my tank is finally on the down hill side of the cycle so i am gettin prepared to order a CUC. All i can say for sure is its a nano cube HQI with actenics added, 28G with 20lbs LS and 30lbs LR.
I dont want any crabs
I do want a fire shrimp
Thats all i know for sure, give me some suggestions as to the best snails to order and the amount of them. Remeber, this is my first time so im askin what you would order if you were me. Thanks

 

[rcoultas]

I would start out with 10 turbo astrea and 10 nassarius (vibex if you can find them) - you can add to that a little later but that's a reasonable start up for you.

 

[emtguy]

any other opinions? whats vibex?

 

[rcoultas]

"Vibex" is one specie of the nassarius - they are tropical and thus live in the warmer waters as opposed to the typical nassarius which are "ilynassa obsoleta" - they are atlantic specie that thrives in the cooler waters. In our tropical tanks they latter will not live as long nor be as productive during it's lifespan.

 

[happyhourh]

The best snails hands down are the red footed snail. I don't know what else to call them but they stay on the rocks and glass. They will eat cyano, hair, film and bryopsis. Unlike any other snails I've seen. I got 2 of them 6 months ago and have not seen any for sale anywhere.
If you cant find those, go with 8 - 10 turbo astrea maybe 1 - 2 mexican turbo and 5-10 Nassarius (they eat uneaten food and stir the sandbed).

 

[happyhourh]

I found an article from reefkeeping magazine that says the red foots I am talking about are collected from colder waters and are not a good candidate for tropical reefs. I run my tank at 75 and have had the snails about 6 months.
Just thought I'd pass this on since I was talking them up so much.

 

[emtguy]

will 6 vibex nass. 6 atreas and 1 mex turbo be enough ?

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by emtguy
http:///forum/post/2469315
will 6 vibex nass. 6 atreas and 1 mex turbo be enough ?
In a new 28? You do not need anywhere near that amount. You will not have the algae to support them yet. Get 2 snails. Don't get a mexican yet. Snails without a proper food source will die of starvation.

 

[emtguy]

Well it aint that new, it is 1 month old and thru cycling...LOL
Only 2? i got diatoms and algae in tank, i just dont know how much algae they need i guess?

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by emtguy
http:///forum/post/2469362
Well it aint that new, it is 1 month old and thru cycling...LOL
Only 2? i got diatoms and algae in tank, i just dont know how much algae they need i guess?
The cleanup crew will not make a significant difference in the amount of diatoms. Most will not eat them. It is better to have less than enough rather than too many. The snails eat algae and some detritus. If you have too many then they will die. You can always add more as needed.

 

[emtguy]

Well when u have to order everything online like i do most of the time there is a minimum order and even if not i would like to save on shipping.
Someone tell me the ideal CUC for a 28g thats thru cycling and 1 month old please. Thanks for replys so far. I still dont think 2 would make any difference, am i totally wrong and showing my noobness on this?
can i go ahead and get a fire shrimp while im ordering?

 

[apos]

Never think of your CUC as cleaning the tank for you. They won't. They can't. They help reach areas you can't, and help keep things a little more manageable, but you shouldn't feel like the solution to diatoms and cyano and algae and other stuff is to add cuc until they go away.
I would get some astrea, or preferably some trochus and nerites. You could also try a cerith snail. Nassarius are great, but as their principal job is to clean up uneaten food, and you won't be feeding your tank, I'd hold off on them until you get fish.
Keep in mind that different snails do different things and go after different food sources in different parts of the tank, so variety is often better than numbers. Diversity is king.

 

[emtguy]

I understnd that they will not clean the tank, Im just in this situation. I am a newbie and have followed all the great advice given on this forum to the T and now it is time to order a CUC and i have no idea of how many or what kind of snails i need.
Theres tons of CUC to choose from online and i do not have a clue which ones to get and no one seems to really understand that. Im getting great advice but no ones saying " hey for your first CUC for a 28g try ___ snails and get about ____ of them etc....
How about 5 astreas, 1 turbo and 5 ceriths and a fire shrimp?

 

[apos]

Leave out the turbo for now, and onyl get 3 ceriths to start, but that otherwise sounds like a fine start. The reason no one is telling you the perfect CUC is that it a) doesn't really matter as much to the overall health of the tank so there is no hard and fast rule and b) it really all depends on the specifics of the tank, algae growth, etc. It sounds like you aren't even quite finished cycling yet, so its hard to judge what will happen down the road... i.e. how soon you'll have the various algae blooms etc.
Like I said, just try to slowly add as many DIFFERENT kinds of snails as you can kind in LFSs. Acclimate them very carefully, and build your collection bit by bit.
I would not order a CUC online. I would build from what you can find in a LFS. Nearly every online place would basically require you to buy way way too many critters for your size system.
As far as the shrimp, I personally would hold off a bit. A month is still very new, and you don't know yet what your parameters are going to be like, and how easy it will be for you to keep the water quality stable and healthy. Fire shrimp are like around 30$ a pop, and I wouldn't want to invest that money in something until I was really comfortable with my system and was sure the water quality was up to snuff and, more importantly, is likely to stay that way.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by emtguy
http:///forum/post/2471091
I understnd that they will not clean the tank, Im just in this situation. I am a newbie and have followed all the great advice given on this forum to the T and now it is time to order a CUC and i have no idea of how many or what kind of snails i need.
Theres tons of CUC to choose from online and i do not have a clue which ones to get and no one seems to really understand that. Im getting great advice but no ones saying " hey for your first CUC for a 28g try ___ snails and get about ____ of them etc....
How about 5 astreas, 1 turbo and 5 ceriths and a fire shrimp?
Here's my $0.02 worth. The general rule of thumb for a salt water tank is 1 member of a clean-up crew per gallon of water. I personally prefer to run that number of snails and half that number of hermit crabs. Once your tank has finished cycling (Ammonia, and nitrite are consistently zero), and Nitrate is at an acceptable level, I personally would add a full clean-up crew. Especially if you already have diatoms and algae growing in your tank. The faster you can get this under control, the better, IMO. I disagree with Sepulations observation that the clean-up crew will not eat diatoms. I've seen too many snail tracks eaten through the diatoms on aquarium glass to buy that. Turbos in my opinion are the best at this, ceriths are a close second, and I prefer ceriths because turbos tend to fall off of rocks and glass and end up upside down. If you don't see them fall and turn them right-side up they die. But IME both types will consume diatoms off of the glass, the rock, and the sandbed. Apos is correct, the clean-up crew is not going to keep your tank clean, but it will help control the growth of algaes on surfaces that you don't clean (i.e. rocks and sand). There are online sources that will sell you only the number of clean-up crew members that you want. I personally add hermit crabs because they will eat algaes (like hair algaes) that your snails will not; and I prefer red-legs over scarlets or blue-legs. Like Apos, I would recommend holding off on the nassarius until you start feeding your tank, so you may want to leave space in your clean-up crew to add some of these later, and I also would recommend waiting on the scarlet shrimp; until your tank is more stable. Just my opinion.

 

[emtguy]

Thanks for the reply !!
today i added 2 blue leg hermits, 4 turbos and 1 mexican turbo and a fire shrimp. After getting them in tank and seeing them work i do know that i dont have near enough so tommorow im going to add 3 more blue legs and 2 more turbos.
So far they are doing great !!!
The fire shrimps cool to.
I floated them for acclimation and every 10 minuted put 1 ounce of my water in the bag. I did this for 30 minutes and they seem to be doing fine.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2471400
Here's my $0.02 worth. The general rule of thumb for a salt water tank is 1 member of a clean-up crew per gallon of water. I personally prefer to run that number of snails and half that number of hermit crabs. Once your tank has finished cycling (Ammonia, and nitrite are consistently zero), and Nitrate is at an acceptable level, I personally would add a full clean-up crew. Especially if you already have diatoms and algae growing in your tank. The faster you can get this under control, the better, IMO. I disagree with Sepulations observation that the clean-up crew will not eat diatoms. I've seen too many snail tracks eaten through the diatoms on aquarium glass to buy that. Turbos in my opinion are the best at this, ceriths are a close second, and I prefer ceriths because turbos tend to fall off of rocks and glass and end up upside down. If you don't see them fall and turn them right-side up they die. But IME both types will consume diatoms off of the glass, the rock, and the sandbed. Apos is correct, the clean-up crew is not going to keep your tank clean, but it will help control the growth of algaes on surfaces that you don't clean (i.e. rocks and sand). There are online sources that will sell you only the number of clean-up crew members that you want. I personally add hermit crabs because they will eat algaes (like hair algaes) that your snails will not; and I prefer red-legs over scarlets or blue-legs. Like Apos, I would recommend holding off on the nassarius until you start feeding your tank, so you may want to leave space in your clean-up crew to add some of these later, and I also would recommend waiting on the scarlet shrimp; until your tank is more stable. Just my opinion.
I see who has been giving the #/ per gallon "rule of thumb". I was wondering who that was. Clean up crews don't eat diatoms. They will eat some, don't get me wrong.You will see tracks through the diatoms. Many will also die from lack of food. Nassarius snails will sift through the sand bed. They are detritus eaters, as well as the tasty foods in the tank. An abundance of hermits will kill the snails for their shells, even if you add empty hermit shells. Cleaning the diatoms off by hand and lightly vacuuming the top layer of sand are much more efficient ways to aid in the reduction. I do not recommend a full blown cleanup crew in a new tank at all. There are also things that the OP can do to reduce diatoms. He can reduce lighting, be sure to use RO water instead of tap, be sure that any sunlight is blocked from the tank, and so on.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by emtguy
http:///forum/post/2472352
Thanks for the reply !!
today i added 2 blue leg hermits, 4 turbos and 1 mexican turbo and a fire shrimp. After getting them in tank and seeing them work i do know that i dont have near enough so tommorow im going to add 3 more blue legs and 2 more turbos.
So far they are doing great !!!
The fire shrimps cool to.
I floated them for acclimation and every 10 minuted put 1 ounce of my water in the bag. I did this for 30 minutes and they seem to be doing fine.
You cannot tell how they are going to do yet. Wait awhile.

 

[emtguy]

My diatoms are not that bad, little discoloration on the SB at front of tank. I use DI water. What do you mean i cant tell how they are doing yet? Its been 6 hrs and they are moving around alot and eating algea i assume.
Are you saying wait awhile to see if they are still alive or to see if the " food" is enough for this number?

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by emtguy
http:///forum/post/2472456
My diatoms are not that bad, little discoloration on the SB at front of tank. I use DI water. What do you mean i cant tell how they are doing yet? Its been 6 hrs and they are moving around alot and eating algea i assume.
Are you saying wait awhile to see if they are still alive or to see if the " food" is enough for this number?
Absolutely! You cannot tell how long they are going to feed off of what you have in the tank. 6 Hrs is not much. Wait about a month. They move around an awful lot at first. Wait even two weeks and tell us how they are doing at that time. You will see what eats what in that time. I am not trying to come off wrong. I have seen inverts (mainly snails) die in new tanks because they do not have enough food. I have personally witnessed hermits, which I bought when I was new, kill snails and steal their shells. I still have two hermits in turbo snail shells and one in a nassarius shell. I added new shells. They would rather get them fresh off of another inverts back. That is what they do. I am giving you fair warning. Listen to whomever you would like. We all have advice to share.