Cycling a 'redone' crashed tank after 3 years?

[heymybigfish]

Hi all! I had a pretty successful tank several years ago, which eventually crashed...anyways, i took it all apart and put the stuff in a tote (including about 60lbs of live rock, which is now 100% dried out...and dusty)
anyways. i cleaned all the mechanical parts with fresh water (coralife superskimmer 65, fluval 305 filter, heater..etc) some of which still has stuck on, old, coraline algae. is that going to negatively effect anything?>
also, im planning to use the old live rock later down the road, after i cure it, and i plan on buying new liverock in the mean time.
So, now to cycling.
are there any specific, different challenges that i'll encounter since i'm using equipment that has old dead algae and stuff on it? (cleaned but some remains)
also, the method i plan on cycling, i was wondering if i could get some direction. i've read several articles (like 10, and some youtube videos) on more efficient ways to cycle tanks....i can't really find a direct method, as far as 'step by step cycling'. which is incredibly annoying... so here's what i plan on doing, and please correct me where i'm wrong...i'm just trying to iron down an actual step by step plan, because i don't really remember how i did it last time (i think i actually added a couple tablespoons of straight ammonia to the tank to start the cycle)
1. tank, skimmer, heater, powerheads, filter are all cleaned.
2. filter canister will be filled with carbon and biomax (and the foam filter)
3. i'll install the skimmer, filter, heater, heads.
4. fill the tank with treated tap water, and add instant ocean *(though i may just buy the ocean water by the gallon for my initial setup)
5. dump some bags of livesand in (i'm thinking 2.5" of that bioactive livesand?)
6. once the sand settles overnight, ill add my new CURED liverock (from a fishstore)and aquascape (or should i only put in my now 'dead' rock thats been in a tote for 3 years?)
7. turn the filter on, turn on the power heads, leave the skimmer off (right?)
8. install my light on top (but leave it off to prevent early algae right?)
9. add an ammonia source (i'm thinking piece of raw shrimp? or should i do a yt damsel?....hate to hurt a fish!)
10.... test it daily for a month or w/e wil the cycle completes...
is that a fair plan? anything i missed?
any help is greatly appreciated! thanks.

 

[flower]

Hi, and welcome to the site! I saw your post yesterday but didn't realize you were new....or I would have welcomed you sooner.
I wouldn't use treated tap water in my tank at all. Walmart sells RO (reverse Osmosis) for 37 cents a gallon. Your own RO unit is best, but if you don't then 5g jugs are your friends. The grocery stores that have a refill station will do so much better then tap water. There is more in tap water then the chlorine...such as fluoride and inhibitors for bacteria.
Set up your rock, sand and water in the tank with your canister filter, power heads and such (leave the skimmer off for the first month) Add a piece of raw shrimp, pure ammonia or ghost feed (anything but a live fish) ...watch for the ammonia spike, then nitrite and finally nitrate. Do a little water change and you are all ready for your first critter.....You really should set up your quarantine tank at the same time, it will go a long way to prevent problems with sick fish, and prevent a future crash.
Your old rock is just fine, a couple of pieces of live rock to seed the other is a nice cheap method. The lights are not needed and algae isn't a worry...as soon as you have enough algae, get a CUC (Clean Up Crew = snails, crabs, and serpent or brittle stars (just not green brittle stars)

 

[heymybigfish]

thanks Flower!
ok, so sounds like i'm basically on the right track then. so to be clear, i CAN put my old dead rock in the tank, with some new liverock, right away, and start the cycle like that?
thanks again! can't wait to get this going. (what's the deal with green brittle stars?)

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heymybigfish http:///t/395458/cycling-a-redone-crashed-tank-after-3-years#post_3520847
thanks Flower!
ok, so sounds like i'm basically on the right track then. so to be clear, i CAN put my old dead rock in the tank, with some new liverock, right away, and start the cycle like that?
thanks again! can't wait to get this going. (what's the deal with green brittle stars?)
HI,
Yep, add the rocks and cycle all at once. Green brittle stars get really big, and then they eat sleeping fish, it's really hard to get them out because they hang out in the rocks. Mine got huge pretty fast, so I don't recommend that people get them. Brittles make great cleaners deep in the rocks, but serpent stars are just as good, and they don't grow up to eat the fish.

 

[heymybigfish]

hey Flower, one more question please!
Will my dead rock cure during the cycle process and turn into liverock? or will it ever turn into liverock? thanks!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heymybigfish http:///t/395458/cycling-a-redone-crashed-tank-after-3-years#post_3520885
hey Flower, one more question please!
Will my dead rock cure during the cycle process and turn into liverock? or will it ever turn into liverock? thanks!
Hi,
The cycle is just to build up the good bacteria that feeds on the ammonia and nitrites. Bacteria will settle on all surfaces, and in sponges in your canister. That's why it's not recommended to replace all of your media at one time...to prevent the loss of too much good bacteria. For my 90g I used to use 2 canisters, I would clean one and alternate so I didn't have a problem of destroying too much of the good bacteria colonies.
Live rock is called "live" because of the tiny critters (amphipods, copepods, and isopods) that make their home in the rock, those critters are good for our fish tanks. Left alone the critters will increase and breed, and find homes in every crevice they can find. Your rock has lots of vacant homes, so as the live rock you "seed" the tank with increases it's critter population, they will spread out to the dead rock and set up house and breed some more.
Therefore the "dead" rock will eventually become live rock.

 

[heymybigfish]

is there any REAL advantage to using the bioactive 'live' sand, as opposed to any substrate and adding some live sand from an established tank?
also, i did all RO water....and added oceanic salt mix...there were a bunch of large salt chunks on the bottom of the tank (biggest being about the size of the letter O on your keyboard) that i siphoned out because there's no way those would dissolve...but the tank is uber cloudy... how long does it take to clear up? kind of annoying, lol.

 

[flower]

Hi,
The bioactive "live" sand is loaded with good bacteria, like using the product called Cycle. It's a step up from dry aragonite sand. Live reef sand is best. If you have a friend with an established tank, you can take a handful of his sand to seed dry sand. However it doesn't have as much of the good bacteria the bioactive sand does. The tank still has to cycle, and it really can't be rushed, so it will still take just as long.
The salt should dissolve over night...just have the power heads running to churn the water. Most new set tanks are cloudy, once all the sand settles and the slat dissolves, it will clear in maybe a day or so.
I always mixed my saltwater outside the tank and poured it in...so an expert I'm not when it comes to how long it may actually take.

 

[heymybigfish]

yeah, i used to mix the salt outside the tank, but i figured since it's empty, there's no better place, lol...
i have 3 powerheads running in it overnight tonight, SG @ 1.021 a little low i know, but i figure i better not add more salt because once it heats up a few more degrees and the rest of the salt dissolves, that'll raise it a little bit.
i'm debating on buying ALL 'bioactive' live sand (wet in the bag stuff) or 1 40lb bag of the bio sand, and then the rest just dry agronite...anyways, i think about 65lbs should do around 2" roughly. then ill let that settle overnight tomorrow, then i'm going to add all my rock on sunday.... i'm thinking of doing about 40lbs of baserock, and seeding it with 30lbs live. does that sound fair? or should i do 40lbs live and 30lbs base?
once i add the rock and aquascape, ill put all my media into my canister (i went with 3 compartments biomax, 3 compartments carbon....do you recommend anything else? like that aquaclear or pre filter...anything?)
then sunday night if all is settled down, i'll toss in a piece of raw shrimp and kickstart this party. (and maybe a bottle of that "cycle" bacteria additive.

 

[flower]

Make sure the rock is on the bottom, you can't build on shifting sand. I don't use the biomax beads. The floss and carbon is all I ever bothered to use. The Chemipure Elite was used as well. A one inch sand-bed is just fine. You can toss in the shrimp any time. Cycle bacteria additive can't hurt, but you do need your own test kits to monitor the water.

 

[heymybigfish]

thanks for all the replies....
i put 60lbs of caribsea livesand in this morning.... kept all power heads/filter going til about 3 hrs ago, then i shut it all down to just let the silt and stuff settle...its obviously super cloudy....
i'm slightly concerned about the cloudiness of the water (before i put the sand in), as it was still very foggy 24hrs after adding the salt.... i'm hoping it'll clear up... the salt i used was 3 years old, from my old tank. still brand new in package, but ya know... who knows. worst case scenario is, i'll have to do a water change i guess. but wouldn't look forward to buying another 45 gallons of RO water from walmart tomorrow or monday,.
tomorrow, if i have free time, i plan on getting all the rock aquascaped....i have the base rock down, but didn't want to put in actual live rock since i couldn't see anything due to the cloudiness!
anyways, thx for all the help so far! i'm sure ill have more questions!

 

[heymybigfish]

question again... 2 actually
for live rock
1. its all about surface area right? 50lbs of porous rock is way better than 1 huge 50lb rock right?
2. if i buy liverock online (since its about 1/2 price compared to the LFS), it says 'must cure for a week, do not add to existing tank'...but that wouldn't matter since i haven't cycled yet right? so i could add that plus my base rock right away, and be just fine?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heymybigfish http:///t/395458/cycling-a-redone-crashed-tank-after-3-years#post_3521109
question again... 2 actually
for live rock
1. its all about surface area right? 50lbs of porous rock is way better than 1 huge 50lb rock right?
2. if i buy liverock online (since its about 1/2 price compared to the LFS), it says 'must cure for a week, do not add to existing tank'...but that wouldn't matter since i haven't cycled yet right? so i could add that plus my base rock right away, and be just fine?
Hi,
You are correct, the rock will "cure" as the tank cycles. In fact the rock needing to be cured, helps kick start the first cycle. We don't put uncured rock into an established tank because it cause an ammonia spike, and might kill all of your fish.
What curing a rock means:
As rock is shipped, many of the tiny critters die off, so the rock needs to sit in saltwater for what living creatures remain to breed and populate, the dead have to decay and rot away. The rock is cured... AKA aged...when all the dead living in the rock have decayed.
We put pure ammonia, ghost feed, or put a chunk of raw shrimp into a new setup tank so an ammonia spike will occur...with the dead on/in the rock, that is exactly what happens.
Oh and on the first question...one rock is not better then the other because of the little nooks and crannies having more surface area, rather it is because the tiny critters have more spots to set up house and breed. Actually you don't even need any rocks...the resin decorations (if there is enough of it) will also be covered in the good bacteria and keep the tank stable as fish are added. But without places to hide for the tiny critters, the fish will gobble them up pretty fast, and then you won't have them to help feed on detritus and algae.
I personally use decorations and live rock in both of my tanks, so the tank isn't filled with just plain ol rock (I don't like the look of that). A reef tank is different because the corals decorate the rocks and add color and contrast. Our tanks are an expression of ourselves, it should look nice to you besides making a good home for your fish pets.

 

[heymybigfish]

Howdy again. Thanks again as we'll.
I did a 95% water change due to the cloudiness....which was from that old salt I expect.... Anyways, I'm about 85% crystal clear this morning.
I tested my water....what was the ideal pH and other stuff?..
Sg- 1.023
Ammonia .25
Nitrite/rate 0
PH 8.0
I have ammonia, I'm guessing, from 25lbs of old base rock I mentioned earlier. I'm off to the fish store to get 30 or 40 lbs of cured lr....then minor aquascaping, and a chunk of shrimp maybe. Or maybe just a tsp of pure ammonia? Anyways, should I get a test kit for calcium and alkalinity? I'm guessing so. Thanks for all your help so far. Also, when should I put on my skimmer and lights? I have actinic/10k light thing... Idk it was almost 300 bucks when I originally bought it. Would the bulbs still be effective/beneficial as long as they light up?

 

[heymybigfish]

So I have ammonia at .5 ppm, and nitrite also.... thats a good sign right? nitrites only 2 days in?
anyways, i didn't add any ammonia source and still had enough to start the cycle from the die off i suppose.
i bought some pure-ish ammonia...clear, no 'surfactant', passes the 'shake test'.... idk if any of that means anything, but its Ace Janitorial or whatever, i've read + and - things about it.... i chose the ammonia route, because it seems like you can control it easier to avoid overdosing, if you don't take a shrimp out in time for example. oh well, i'm glad to not have to kill a fish to cycle the tank anyways!

When do i add the cleaning crew? once algae appears? or the diatom algae?... also is this websites '30-90 reef package' of inverts overkill? i think its 40crabs/40snails/3emeralds/1starfish/1shrimp

 

[jay0705]

Yes most advertised cuc packages r over kill. 2nd u need food for them to eat. So rt after your tank cycles isn't the best time. Now if u start getting an alage build up, try a few snails at first. Then build your cuc to suit your needs

 

[heymybigfish]

Ahhhh I figured.... Rather have a little algae than a bunch of dead creatures.
I just started the cycle, so it'll be a while yet. Thanks for your help though.

 

[jay0705]

Agreed. When mine cycled i got diatoms. Once things leveled off i have minimal alage and i believe 6 snails in my 75.

 

[heymybigfish]

updates...
after acquiring pure ammonia, i've boosted the level to somewhere between 2 and 4... lol i say this because on the API test kits.... 2, 4 and 8 is green, slightly darker green and darker than slightly darker green...
i definitely darker than the 2, i think its around 4... anyways, i also have tested nitrites at 2 so they're rising. few weeks i'll probably be getting some nitrates i'd guess....

 

[jay0705]

Agreed. Its a process but a necessary one. Don't rush it and you'll be fine