Cycling/Damsel

bruder

Member
I recently purchased a 14 gal Bio-Cube and started cycling it with some live sand, 8lbs live rock, and a damsel. The damsel is hanging out by the heater almost 24/7 besides during feeding times. Is this behavior "normal"? I don't expect it to be swimming around the tank all day, but I was just wondering if it hanging out by the heater means something. The temp in the tank reads 78 on the other side of the aquariuam.
Also, should I wait for the completion of the cycling to add some gorgonian or is this irrelevant?
Thanks.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Bruder
I recently purchased a 14 gal Bio-Cube and started cycling it with some live sand, 8lbs live rock, and a damsel. The damsel is hanging out by the heater almost 24/7 besides during feeding times. Is this behavior "normal"? I don't expect it to be swimming around the tank all day, but I was just wondering if it hanging out by the heater means something. The temp in the tank reads 78 on the other side of the aquariuam.
Also, should I wait for the completion of the cycling to add some gorgonian or is this irrelevant?
Thanks.
Take the damsel back to your LFS, you are torturing him to death. All that is needed to cycle is LR & LS. Wait on the gorgonia. Let your tank cycle and take things slow. Welcome to the boards. I am sorry If I seem harsh, I certainly don't mean to be. LFS's often give wrong information just to sell you something. Damsels are usually outgoing and active fish, he is suffering, please take him back. If you are wondering how far along the cycle you are, please post your exact water readings. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, kh, salinity and temp. We will walk you through this. Again, get that fish out of there ASAP.
 
I agree the best cycle can be achieved with uncured live rock, never use damsels, not only does it take longer, its pretty rough on the fish
 

bruder

Member
Thanks for the heads up. My LFS is a pretty well known store (they have been in buisness for a long time) and are pretty highly respected around here. I do appreciate the advice and if the Damsel doesn't start getting more adventurous in the next day, I will take him back. The guy at the store said that he still could be a little stressed from the move. I'll get you those readings once I get my kit. They said don't bother for atleast 10 days.
Also, I'm going to try and get a picture of my Aquascaping up - just for some pointers.
Thanks guys and gals.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Bruder
Thanks for the heads up. My LFS is a pretty well known store (they have been in buisness for a long time) and are pretty highly respected around here. I do appreciate the advice and if the Damsel doesn't start getting more adventurous in the next day, I will take him back. The guy at the store said that he still could be a little stressed from the move. I'll get you those readings once I get my kit. They said don't bother for atleast 10 days.
Also, I'm going to try and get a picture of my Aquascaping up - just for some pointers.
Thanks guys and gals.
I am sorry to say that your LFS is handing you a load of bull. I have gotten damsels streight from the ocean that have adapted quickly. If anything when they are scared, they dart around even more. These are very bold fish. Please post your readings when you get them.
 

renogaw

Active Member
i agree with everything above except what your lfs said.
imagine YOU getting put into a tank, and ammonia gas getting slowly put into that tank. how would you feel? if you're going to get into this hobby, and you already have, you need to have respect for it and your fish. they are living animals.
 

bruder

Member
Originally Posted by renogaw
i agree with everything above except what your lfs said.
imagine YOU getting put into a tank, and ammonia gas getting slowly put into that tank. how would you feel? if you're going to get into this hobby, and you already have, you need to have respect for it and your fish. they are living animals.

By no means do I disrespect the hobby, however, most literature online and LFSs do in fact suggest to use a hardy fish (such as a damsel) to cycle a tank, so I did as I had read and had been advised. Now that I have heard the opinion of the forum, I will use that information also.
I appreciate all of the advice that has been given to me by you guys who obviously know more on the topic than I, however, Renogaw there is no need for attack. You question my respect, however, read your post another time through, I believe it is you who is being disrespectful. I came here for advice and guidance on the topic, not to be demeaned.
Thank you to those who have had helpful and informative information to share.
 

renogaw

Active Member
was not meant as an attack. this hobby will be expensive and if you don't have respect for it, you'll lose a lot of money and fish.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bruder
By no means do I disrespect the hobby, however, most literature online and LFSs do in fact suggest to use a hardy fish (such as a damsel) to cycle a tank, so I did as I had read and had been advised. Now that I have heard the opinion of the forum, I will use that information also.
I appreciate all of the advice that has been given to me by you guys who obviously know more on the topic than I, however, Renogaw there is no need for attack. You question my respect, however, read your post another time through, I believe it is you who is being disrespectful. I came here for advice and guidance on the topic, not to be demeaned.
Thank you to those who have had helpful and informative information to share.
Welcome to the boards.
You are absolutely correct; curing with damsels is a old, popular method. The posters are correct too, however; curing can kill your fish. Ask yourself why you need a hardy, cheap fish to cycle with?
Many people cycle their tanks with live rock. If it's uncured rock you'll have an ammonia source. If not then you can use a bit of fish food to feed every few days.
There are two problems with cycling with fish: 1. the fish can die from the toxic ammonia. 2. If the fish survive you've got damsels in your tank when your cycle is complete..
 

f14peter

Member
Originally Posted by Bruder
By no means do I disrespect the hobby, however, most literature online and LFSs do in fact suggest to use a hardy fish (such as a damsel) to cycle a tank, so I did as I had read and had been advised. Now that I have heard the opinion of the forum, I will use that information also.
I appreciate all of the advice that has been given to me by you guys who obviously know more on the topic than I, however, Renogaw there is no need for attack. You question my respect, however, read your post another time through, I believe it is you who is being disrespectful. I came here for advice and guidance on the topic, not to be demeaned.
Thank you to those who have had helpful and informative information to share.
Not defending the LFS or any reference materials, but I believe that the cycling-with-damsels is more of an old-school, "that's how we've always done it" approach more than an effort to pinch more money out of the customer (Although that's probably the motivation behind some stores). In fact, one LFS suggested cycling with damsels, but then said that once the cycle was complete, we could bring the damsels back for store credit . . . hardly an effort to squeeze an additonal $4-$5 out of us.
I'm pretty new to the hobby and may be wrong, but I understand that the concept of cycling with LR, LS, etc is a relatively new idea, at least for the general hobbiest. Like any new approach, it may take a while to catch on with the majority of stores. Even the younger employees have probably been coached/trained in the old methods by their employers and are just passing on what they've been taught. Remember, when somebody's been doing something for a long time, that apparently works and has been accepted, it can take a while to change.
Another enticement is that cycling with damsels does actually put a fish in the tank rather quickly in the set-up process. My wife has been a real Dear and has learned the newer techniques right along with me, but even she's admitted that the urge to get something in the tank is strong indeed. I've had to gently remind her, and she's gracefully accepted, that we're taking the slow approach and that the tank will have livestock soon enough.
 

reptij

Member
I read somewhere also that a Damsel is territorial and being in the tank alone during cycling it will claim the entire tank as its own. Then when you are ready to add more fish it will attack them.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by f14peter
Another enticement is that cycling with damsels does actually put a fish in the tank rather quickly in the set-up process. My wife has been a real Dear and has learned the newer techniques right along with me, but even she's admitted that the urge to get something in the tank is strong indeed.
I think you nailed it. Pet stores (and rightly so as they are businesses) want you to get hooked (pardon the pun) in the hobby. If they tell everyone who is setting up a new tank that they can't get a fish for 4-6 weeks they are going to A. Drive people away from hobby or B. Drive people to a different pet store that won't tell them that.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by reptij
I read somewhere also that a Damsel is territorial and being in the tank alone during cycling it will claim the entire tank as its own. Then when you are ready to add more fish it will attack them.
Damsels can be very territorial. In addition they grow quickly and eat a lot. They are also way too smart to be recaptured easily.
 

woodwalker

Member
This site is very anti damsel cycle.. Most people here say L/R
and maybe raw shrimp. Makes me wonder though what about the
shrimp. A live wonderful creature boiled to death...I cycled with
damsels in the past, returned them to the store and went on to
be very successful in the hobby. I just started another tank and by
reading on this site I don't Know jack.....That maybe true but many
ways to get to the same point.........................................
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by woodwalker
This site is very anti damsel cycle.. Most people here say L/R
and maybe raw shrimp. Makes me wonder though what about the
shrimp. A live wonderful creature boiled to death...I cycled with
damsels in the past, returned them to the store and went on to
be very successful in the hobby. I just started another tank and by
reading on this site I don't Know jack.....That maybe true but many
ways to get to the same point.........................................
The cocktail shrimp (should be uncooked, btw) is already dead. Why kill a fish?
Using "uncured rock" is the best because it allows for maximum biodiversity withour killing or injuring anything. A cocktail shrimp, fish food, etc. is for a source of ammonia if you are using cured rock.
I don't think it is so much about being "anti damsel cycle" so much as it's about teaching people the best way to enjoy the hobby without needlessly killing anything.
 

woodwalker

Member
Thats my point. Somebody Decided that shrimps fate. I'm not
saying kill fish, but you do need a source of amonia to start
cycle right!! A 3 dollar damsel or 8lb L/R Hmmm. I talked
and read and all contradicts what is needed for live rock,
like lighting and such???Journeyman anything to do with IBEW???
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by woodwalker
Thats my point. Somebody Decided that shrimps fate. I'm not
saying kill fish, but you do need a source of amonia to start
cycle right!! A 3 dollar damsel or 8lb L/R Hmmm. I talked
and read and all contradicts what is needed for live rock,
like lighting and such???Journeyman anything to do with IBEW???
IBEW? Nope.
As for the live rock, you're going to put that into your tank anyway, right?
 
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