cycling with base rock only

[mp32]

I was wondering if it is possibe to cycle with just base rock and live sand, and then add live rock after the tank is cycled, so that I can preserve the hitch hikers on the live rock. I have aragonite sand and I may put a deep sand bed in the fuge, can I put a thin base of aragonite and then a thin layer of the sand from this site over the top of it in the DT? If I go deep sand bed in the fuge it wil be all sand from this site.

 

[florida joe]

You can cycle with any material that the nitrifying bacteria will colonize on put in your base rock a small raw shrimp and wait and monitor Your live sand my have the bacteria but you have to feed it hence the shrimp you should get a spike of ammonia, a drop off and an increase in nitrites when ammonia and nitrites are zero and you have a slight reading of nitrates your good to go. BUT it takes time

 

[mp32]

Is the cycle faster or easier with live rock? Can add the live sand over the top of the Aragonite? I do not want to put much because I do not want a deep bed in the DT, I only want about an inch total.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by mp32
http:///forum/post/2619810
Is the cycle faster or easier with live rock? Can add the live sand over the top of the Aragonite? I do not want to put much because I do not want a deep bed in the DT, I only want about an inch total.
With all do respect. I seem to get the feeling you are new to this hobby. The Conscientious Aquarist by R. Fenner an excellent place to start. Be aware nothing is fast and easy in this hobby

 

[mp32]

Yep I am new you caught me!

I am looking at getting that book. I am going to have to order it, I can not find it in any stores. But I do know that nothing is fast or easy, I just wrote what I was saying the wrong way, what I meant was, If I use the live rock for the cycle will it make it easier for kick starting it as far as more organic die off to cycle the tank, or is the shrimp just as good? My main concern is losing any benificial hitch hikers in the process of the cycle, or am I too concerned about that?

 

[florida joe]

There is no need to sacrifice live rock to cycle your tank IMO hold off on the live rock cycle your tank with the shrimp. Then if you can get the live rock locally you will have minimal die off. Also a one inch sand bed will be useless. There are people that run tanks with no substrate in them but that’s best left for more experienced hobbyist.

 

[mp32]

Well I was not planning on a deep bed in the DT, I may put one in the fuge, or I may just use chaeto, not sure what is best on that side, but anyway, I have read for shallow bed do not go to 2", 1/2" to an inch should be fine 4" and up for DSB. What sand bed would you recomend for a newbie? have heard that DSB in a DT can be trickey if not done right and can crash the tank eventually. Oh and I greatly appreciate the help, thanks!

 

[maelv]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2619843
There is no need to sacrifice live rock to cycle your tank IMO hold off on the live rock cycle your tank with the shrimp.
And I am sure florida joe means a raw shrimp...don't throw anything live to start a cycle...welcome to the site and the addiction.....ahem...i mean hobby!
Me personally, I would fill the tank up with all the dry rock you can find. Let your system cycle and with time that rock will become live. Once your tank has cycled you can buy a couple of smaller peices of live rock to seed the original rock. If you can find a place where they sell nice dry peices (basically live rock that has dried out) you can set your tank up and not have to buy that $8/lb live rock. IT ALL BECOMES LIVE AFTER TIME!!!!
Patience is the key with this hobby...and in no time you will see your rocks start to get that coraline algae.
After having set up several tanks now (all short lived for one reason or another) I won't ever pay $8/lb to fill up a tank, when I will get the same result in time with the nice $1.99/lb peices.
On that note, I am lucky to have a store locally here in SA that sells really really nice dry peices...and they aren't your plain base peices, he gets dry fiji...similar to marco rocks.
okay that is my novel..welcome again..good luck.

 

[florida joe]

LoL yes sorry for not being specific but a cocktail shrimp (dead) in to cycle. As far as live rock and I hate that term but that’s just me you have to understand that the term is so broad. Bacteria, critters different types of algae all make up what is termed live rock. Once your tank is cycled you will need to put in a piece of rock that has coraline algae in to seed your other rock. if your want coriline growth It will not just start by its self also coraline takes time to grow. But is the most beneficial IMO. Other then the higher orders of algae that are used for nutrient export. Again my friend read read read

 

[mp32]

Thanks joe, maelv, well the good news is I did not have to pay for any base rock at all I have 200lbs that my Uncle gave me for free. I want to get the live rock to seed the base later, and to get (hopefully) some cool hitch hikers. I have another question without needing to do another post,My Uncle built me a sump/fuge from my old 55, now I am on the fence about what to do with the fuge, it is 12x18, I was thinking deep sand bed but my Uncle told me that I may get away with only 4" of sand for that because of water level.The problem is he has the skimmer before the fuge so the water level is not that high in the fuge. Is 4" good enough? Also can I not put any sand in there and just Chaeto? I would appreciate any suggestions or would like to see what else you can put in the fuge. Oh and I am deffinately reading, and asking!

 

[florida joe]

ok time for pics of your sump protein skimmer set up. No camera ? time to get one with pics you will get the most helpfull answers

 

[mp32]

Well Joe that is where it gets complicated, I would love to send pics but the equipment is at my Uncles house, and he lives in Tampa, which is about an hour from here. He is supposed to bring and install it in two weeks. He has been in the hobby a long time, but has also been out a long time, which is how I got the rock. This is his first time setting up a sump/fuge, usualy he just does the sump, so I hope he built it properly. From what he told me just today, it looks like this, it is my old 55 gallon, he has the sump where everything will dain, then he has the skimmer, then it turns into the fuge and then it goes back to the tank. Best I can describe it, but I do promise pics when it arrives. Now about the sand, you told me an inch is useless, so what do you recomend for the DT? I was not going to go with a DSB, in the DT

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by mp32
http:///forum/post/2619960
Well Joe that is where it gets complicated, I would love to send pics but the equipment is at my Uncles house, and he lives in Tampa, which is about an hour from here. He is supposed to bring and install it in two weeks. He has been in the hobby a long time, but has also been out a long time, which is how I got the rock. This is his first time setting up a sump/fuge, usualy he just does the sump, so I hope he built it properly. From what he told me just today, it looks like this, it is my old 55 gallon, he has the sump where everything will dain, then he has the skimmer, then it turns into the fuge and then it goes back to the tank. Best I can describe it, but I do promise pics when it arrives. Now about the sand, you told me an inch is useless, so what do you recomend for the DT? I was not going to go with a DSB, in the DT
Why the hell didn’t you tell me you were from west FL. I am here for you my friend anything over one inch will give you anaerobic areas which you want for denitrification. Its an esthetic thing with some people they like less substrate but they achieve their denitrification in other ways go with a two and a half inch sand base I say this because two inches is the min I would like you to have and the sand will pack down

 

[mp32]

Yep, You have another Floridian around, I live in Hudson near SpringHill if you know where that is. I am an Army veteran also, was retired for medical last year, was in for 15. I noticed you are a Nam Vet. Which service? Well about the sand, should I do all Aragonite, I have about 80#s so far I will get more, or should I go half that and half live, or let the cycle do the work to make it live? Oh, is the live sand in the bag any good, or should I order it from here?

 

[florida joe]

First things first I was a LRRP in the First Infinity Division (Big Red One) in Vietnam. I would go with aragonite. I think the bagged stuff is a rip off. I got my sand right out of the gulf. In your case let nature take its course.

 

[jonp]

You're down the street from me.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2619843
There is no need to sacrifice live rock to cycle your tank IMO hold off on the live rock cycle your tank with the shrimp. Then if you can get the live rock locally you will have minimal die off. Also a one inch sand bed will be useless. There are people that run tanks with no substrate in them but that’s best left for more experienced hobbyist.
Joe, I must disagree here, but you are used to that by now

. A shrimp does throw ammonia. It is not the same as having cured live rock in the tank. To the OP, Buy some nice rock and add it to the tank. Cycling with rock is so much more beneficial. The bacteria is there, it spreads to all corners of your tank.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2620365
Joe, I must disagree here, but you are used to that by now

. A shrimp does throw ammonia. It is not the same as having cured live rock in the tank. To the OP, Buy some nice rock and add it to the tank. Cycling with rock is so much more beneficial. The bacteria is there, it spreads to all corners of your tank.
And how does he feed the live rock. He still has to introduce a source of ammonia to keep the colonization going why not save the outrageous amount of money charged for it get some nice base rock (cheap) cycle, colonize. And your good to go. You also have the advantage of braking up your base rock dry and trying different configurations before you put it in your tank. A luxury life rock does not give you

 

[mp32]

From what I understand it seems that both ways are benificial, I know that some will cycle with rock and others will cycle with a shrimp. I am leaning towards the shrimp method first then, when it is cycled, add the rock after it is cured. That way the tank has at least cycled, and when I add the rock it should still spread more life, yet not have the massive die off, with the risk of losing hitch hikers, or anything benificial. I love a good debate, so tell me if I am wrong or right or in the middle. So sepulatian and Joe take your corners and let the debate begin!

JonP, whats up neighbor

!
I will be posting a build diary soon, just been lazy about getting pics and there has been nothing exciting yet, I did put 135 gallons of salt together this weekend and letting it age until the sump arrives.