Cycling

urodude

urodude

Member
360 gallon fish only tank, one month old
added 50% bioballs from established reef tank to aid/accelerate cycling
also have denitrifier which is rowing steadily(biomass that is)
levels had been low until yesterday
Now ammonia still low-.3 mg/l
ph 8.1
nitrate though is at 20ppm
nitrite at "stress" level 3 ppm
Question is, do I do a partial water change or allow the cycle to proceed. Fish are OK so far. I treated for copper safe for a few spots, nothing major. A cinnimon clown as a small amt of lymphocystis(actually looks better today)- One fish has a cloudy eye but stable for a week
Thoughts are appreciated
 
jsgreer1

jsgreer1

Member
well i dont know a lot about this but from what ive learned from talking to ppl on here if your tank is only a month old it probably hasnt finished its cycle and you shouldnt have fish yet...im have the same problem...i got my fish too early
 
urodude

urodude

Member
Most people use fish for cycling, although there is certainly debate over this-ethics, etc.
I thought that my cycle was done as I had seeded with established bioballs and have a denitrifier- Apparently I was wrong
My question now is what to do- Continue to monitor levels and wait or do a partial water change. Again my ammonia is low, nitrite borderline, nitrate on the high side.
Thanks
 
danedodger

danedodger

Member
Can adding fish to early cause cycliing problems such as not cycling properly?
No, Urodude is right in that most of the debate about cycling with fish concerns the ethics of the situation (unless I've missed a big part of this debate somewhere!
). Cycling with fish puts the fish at risk and is, at the very least, hurtful to them which some people (most on this message board included it seems) feel is wrong when there are alternatives that will cycle the tank just as nicely without causing harm to a living thing. I personally agree completely with the consensus of this message board but won't deny that the vast majority of people I hear from/encounter at work have cycled with fish.
My question now is what to do- Continue to monitor levels and wait or do a partial water change. Again my ammonia is low, nitrite borderline, nitrate on the high side.
That's a tough question. On the one hand you NEED some of this to complete the cycle but on the other hand you have to look after the welfare of the fish. There's nothing else you could do with the fish for awhile until the tank cycles? A quarantine tank? Friend's tank? If not I'd say study your fish. Are they ok? Are they eating well? If they seem to be ok I'd monitor them closely and test daily. If the tests go much worse or the fish start showing signs of problems I'd be tempted to do at least a little water change for the sake of the fish. At least enough to bring the levels down a bit but hopefully leaving enough to still complete the cycle.
 
urodude

urodude

Member
Thanks for the thoughts. As I am leaving town for several days(my wife can feed but that's about all), I decided to do the partial change, about 40%. I didn't want to be worrying that parameters were deteriorating while I'm away.
The fish are doing fine- a few spots of ich on one are gone, a cloudy eye is now clear
 
thegrog

thegrog

Active Member
Originally Posted by Urodude
Thanks for the thoughts. As I am leaving town for several days(my wife can feed but that's about all), I decided to do the partial change, about 40%. I didn't want to be worrying that parameters were deteriorating while I'm away.
The fish are doing fine- a few spots of ich on one are gone, a cloudy eye is now clear
I would only do a 20% change. Too much can shock the system.
If you have ich in the tank, there will be ich in there until you remove the fish for 4 weeks. Ich has a life cycle where it is on fish for a few weeks, then freely swimming for a few weeks looking for new fish. It needs fish to survive and reproduce. I would remove the fish to a QT tank and treat for 4 weeks and let the tank fallow fishless (ich doesn't infect inverts) else you will be battling ich for months/years to come.
 
urodude

urodude

Member
The tank is fish only- No live rock - Reef sculpture(fiberglass)
I have used coppersafe with good results. The level is maintained for 4 weeks- I removed my chemipure(charcoal) and will replace it in about a month. The ich should be "gone" by then.
One of the tank maintainance guys I know treats his tanks with coppersafe every three months as prophylaxis against ich. Anyone else do that for their fish only tanks?
 
danedodger

danedodger

Member
Copper should do the trick it just means you can't put inverts in safely. If you never want inverts in the tank though that won't be any loss to you.
I lean to the side of not putting chemicals in at all if I can help it and then going with the "gentlest" one for the shortest amount of time that will do the trick. Copper is one of the only meds that has an established track record of killing ich but it's also not all that healthy for the fish either. There are even some, more delicate/more susceptible to it fish that dosing it even once can show ill affects. I'd say for an ich outbreak it's fine to dose copper with fish only but only carefully according to directions. I'd be worried about long term health issues if it was dosed regularly?
ETA: I believe copper also comprimises your bacteria colony?
 
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