Cycling

aquatics24

Member
This may have been asked before. But how long would it take to cycle a 180 saltwater from tap water...im told 1-2 months...some reason i think thats a high estimate...whats the best way. Ive thought about gettin a couple 50 gallon drums and filling em up from the ocean and bringing them home...or just buying RO...any advice would be great.....Also if i were to do tap water, would i just need salt to mix (like the stuff used for salt-water pools)...or chemicals as well. Thanks
 

rs1831

Active Member
You should consider buying an ro/di unit. It will save you a bunch of headaches down the road. Check out airwatericedotcom. They make some really nice units and they're very affordable.
 

aquatics24

Member
Originally Posted by rs1831
You should consider buying an ro/di unit. It will save you a bunch of headaches down the road. Check out airwatericedotcom. They make some really nice units and they're very affordable.
Hey thank you, sorry i am very novice with this stuff. what does this unit do?
 

brently78

Member
Originally Posted by aquatics24
bump please...also say if i didnt do an RO/DI unit, what would be the side effects of not having one.
I was wondering hte same thing myself
 

aquatics24

Member
Im not sure i understand how they work. Do you connect the unit to the existing filter system? I think i might need someone who has and set up one explain this one to me. Thanks
 

rcdude1990

Active Member
i have a 65 gallon tank
i put tap water in it
but i put a rag over the spout so no dirt would go inside
i had the tank up for three weeks
the first 4 days i put all my stuff in like water, salt mix, sand, and had my filter run
on august 27 i put LR in the tank and a piece of shrimp
on septmber 3 my tank was done cycleing
hope i helped a lilttle
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
ok, tap water has many contaminants in it... chlorine, chloramine, and other minerals. Chlorine and chloramine will kill your fish, and the minerals normally contained in tap water will most likely cause algae problems down the road. Tap water has also been known to have ammonia in it. Those are just causes to have an RO(reverse osmosis) unit. Basically, RO water is filtered so heavily that all you really have left is H20. This is the best for your tank, as it stops any water quality problems in the beginning.
Now these systems can be a little pricey, but you can buy ro water from some stores. Most Walmart supercenters have a corugated water system that dispenses RO water. My local one doesn't, but they also sell bottled water that is RO processed. They sell it by the gallon in the water section. It's labeled "drinking water" and it has a green label and green lid. You can also get distilled water, it's better for your tank than tap water, but not as good as RO water.
As far as the setup, it's not a filter that hooks onto your fish tank, it's a filter that hooks onto your water supply (ie your sink). you can have this setup several ways, including having it setup diretly to the faucet of your sink so you always have RO water from it, or you can have it setup so you can just get RO water when you need it. As far as the technicalities of setting it up, you'll have to ask a pro about that, as i do not have an RO unit.
Does this help, or does it raise more questions?
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
oh yeah, forgot to answer the first question. 1-2 months seems right. That's really how long it takes. Ocean water won't do anything for you, because that's not what is "cycled". What a cycle does is creates a colony of bacteria that breaks down ammonia (from fish waste) into nitrites and then finally into nitrates on your rock, sand and tank walls. Ammonia and nitrites are very toxic to fish, so this is a necessary step before adding fish.
What could help speed along your cycle process is to buy "cured" Live rock, or live sand from a store, or take some from an existing tank (if you know someone). This will start the beginning, so you already have some established bacteria. That could shave a week or two off of your cycle time. There's not definate time, but 1-2 months seems accurate. Took my 55g about 6 weeks to completely cycle
Also, if you are getting LR, you should try to keep your ammonia level at or below 1.0 during the cycle. This will help most of your hitchikers on your LR to survive the cycle process. I made the mistake of letting my ammonia get out of hand during the cycle, and i ended up without one hitchiker... :-(
 

aquatics24

Member
Oh that helps alot. Now that i think about it...on the house water supply is a filter, a charcoal filter...not sure if that will help, but it filters the tap water throughout the house....I think now i will just go ahead a buy RO water...Also ive been reading, people drain their tank weekly 20% and refill, assuming this is to clean the water?...Like i said i am novice on this stuff...what i have so far is 180g, wet/dry, and ocean clear filter...im going to be getting a skimmer to add, i know this might sound like any other new aquarist, but i want to add color and life as soon as possible, but safely. Also if this helps, its going to be mainly fish and some live rock, not so much a reef tank. Thanks
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
A charcoal filter is good, but not great. Charcoal filters out any chemicals in the water, so that is a plus, but it doesn't remove any minerals or anything...
Yes, you have to do water changes, but weekly 20% is just what some people do. Once you get it going and you get used to everything, you'll find what works for you. There are several reasons we need to do water changes. The first and foremost is to lower our nitrates. The cycle establishes a colony of bacteria that changes ammonia (toxic) to nitrites (toxic) and the nitrites to nitrates (not nearly as toxic). As you introduce fish, they'll introduce ammonia, which will eventually turn into nitrates. You need to keep your ammonia and nitrites at 0 level all of the time. Nitrates should be maintained at or below 20ppm. Your nitrates will raise because your fish are constantly putting out ammonia. We do water changes to decrease the amount of nitrates in the system (and ammonia/nitrites if you're having problems). Another reason people do water changes is to replace nutrients lost. This mostly applies to reef tanks (with corals). Corals use up the minerals in the water, and in order to replace them, we do water changes.
You also want to have a lot of LR. This serves as a form of filtration, as the LR houses a LOT of bacteria to change ammonia into nitrates.
Does this help?
 

aquatics24

Member
Yes that helps. The LFS that i am going to be getting goods from informed me that i can buy saltwater directly from them ($0.40/g) ...This is what im going to do. buy the saltwater, live sand, and live rock all at the same time...oh and a test kit. Now when i add all this, run the filter, and the lights (for the rock), should i immedietly test the water, or should i wait a day. Im assuming the water i am buying is already at a good level, but im not too sure...and now my only question is, when i replace the water to remove the nitrates. how long would i do that for; til the cycle is done and levels are maintained, or for as long as there are fish in the tank?
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
ok, honey. the best thing for you to do would to buy a book called The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by robert fenner. This book will tell you everything you need to know about setting up and maintaining your tank. I've been doing this for 2 years, and i still refer to mine, so it's a great investment.
Now, that sounds like a great deal for you water, cause i buy mine for $0.64 unmixed at walmart.
I didn't see anywhere that you had any powerheads, so if you don't have them, you should get a few. for 180 gallon tank, i'd get four powerful ones. These will circulate your water.
While your tank is cycling, you should only do water changes if your ammonia gets above 1.0. This is JMO, and you will hear other opinions. This way, your hitchikers have a much better chance of surviving, and your tank still cycles thoroughly. Other than that, you don't have to worry about doing water changes to remove nitrates until your cycle is complete. You'll know your cycle is complete when you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates.
you don't need to have your lights on for the rock.
ok... here goes. the LR from your LFS can either be "cured" or "uncured". cured refers to LR that has no die-off on it at all... there is nothing dead on it. uncured refers to LR that is live, but has some dead stuff on it due to shipping or whatnot. Anytime you introduce something dead in your tank, it's going to introduce ammonia. the main way to tell the difference is to smell the LR, if it smells absolutely wretched, that means it's uncured. if it just smells like ocean, but not horrible, it's most likely cured.
To start your cycle you need to introduce ammonia to your tank. If you're buying cured LR, you'll have to introduce ammonia another way. If your LR is uncured. all you have to do is put the LR in and let your tank cycle.
If you don't see ammonia in your tank a few days after adding the LR, it's most likely cured, and you'll need to manually introduce ammonia. The best way to do this is to buy a couple of raw shrimp from your grocery store. Put them in a mesh bag (you can get filter media bags at your lfs for this purpose) and throw them in the tank for a few days until you see about 1.0ppm ammonia in your test. Then remove the shrimp. This is the beginning of the cycle. After this, you'll wanna test your tank about every 3 or 4 days. once you see ammonia and nitrites at 0, and nitrates at more than 0, you're finished cycling. Then you'll do a water change to get rid of your nitrates, and a few days later you can add fish.
jeeze, there's so much information to go over... you must buy that book! it's a necessity!!! :)
 

aquatics24

Member
Ok so sounds like I am ready to start, perhaps. The premixed saltwater, should be ready to go, right? if not i would go through the common cycle process. once the ammonia and nitrate are at 0. i dont have to exchange water, correct? So in that matter if the premixed saltwater is A+, i should be ready to go and adding fish within the next couple of days after putting in water.
 

gen1dustin

Member
Jdragunas summed it up pretty good & a book is something great to invest in. Be sure to do your research I've been keeping FW for over 10 years & trust me reasearch & research before buying anything or adding any living creature into your tank. I just added un-cured live rock to my first ever SW tank. I'm using that method for cycling the tank. You'll want to let your tank stabilize for at least a few days or week or so after adding the water & salt. You'll want to make sure everything like temp & salinity is stable before adding your live rock which isn't cheap. Even if you bought water that has been running through cycled systems you need to get your sand bed & filter built up with bacteria to be so called cycled.
You will NOT be able to add fish in a couple of days. It has to be finished cycling. You want your ammonia & nitrites to go uppp, then down to zero & you'
d be cycled then you could add fish or a clean up crew. Trust me get a book and/or read up on the net. Please take a moment to read this site I just found. It explains everything very good & if you won't buy a book this is probally the next best thing. http://www.thetipsbank.com/marine.htm
 

aquatics24

Member
Hey thanks man. I was just assuming that the premixed saltwater would already be at the levels that are suitable, but ofcourse i would test the water before anything...or are you saying, even if the levels are at 0, i still want them to go up to say 1.0, and come back to 0 before adding anything?
 

gen1dustin

Member
Originally Posted by aquatics24
Hey thanks man. I was just assuming that the premixed saltwater would already be at the levels that are suitable, but ofcourse i would test the water before anything...or are you saying, even if the levels are at 0, i still want them to go up to say 1.0, and come back to 0 before adding anything?
In a way yes. Because say I used an RO unit & filled up my tank with water from that. That would have 0 ammonia, so it would be fine for fish, correct? NO. Because there is no bacteria in there to help with the biological filtration & what not. So pretty much yes you have to bring the ammonia up from 0 & bring it back down. That way your tank will be cycled & it will be able to do away with the ammonia that fish create from their waste. How are you planning on cycling the tank? That would probally be the thing to decide right now. You could add a couple of dead shrimp from a grocery store or add un cured live rock. I wouldn't recommend cycling with fish though.
 

aquatics24

Member
Originally Posted by Gen1Dustin
In a way yes. Because say I used an RO unit & filled up my tank with water from that. That would have 0 ammonia, so it would be fine for fish, correct? NO. Because there is no bacteria in there to help with the biological filtration & what not. So pretty much yes you have to bring the ammonia up from 0 & bring it back down. That way your tank will be cycled & it will be able to do away with the ammonia that fish create from their waste. How are you planning on cycling the tank? That would probally be the thing to decide right now. You could add a couple of dead shrimp from a grocery store or add un cured live rock. I wouldn't recommend cycling with fish though.

No im not gonna cycle with fish, too harmful and if they survive, they will be the bully of my aquarium...im going to actually used cured rock, but throw in several dead shrimp. also live sand will be in there..
 

aquatics24

Member
After reading and researching, i came across a problem and question, do i HAVE to use uncured rock for cycling? What exactly is the difference, im confused. Thanks
 

merredeth

Active Member
Originally Posted by aquatics24
After reading and researching, i came across a problem and question, do i HAVE to use uncured rock for cycling? What exactly is the difference, im confused. Thanks
If the rock is uncured that means there is no bacteria in it. You can put cured LR in it, but you may have to feed the rock to get the cycle going. You can feed it with a little food or a piece of raw shrimp in a nylon stocking. Using mesh or nylon to put the shrimp in will save you the problem of chasing down a shrimp that is a royal mess.
Denise M.
 
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