Dangerous anemone ?

remy

Member
Stupid Questions:
A friend got me a Florida Condi Anemone as a gift on SWF.com
I went to look at the ITEM and I read this:
"Anemones have nematocysts, a.k.a. stinging cells, and can be dangerous to the touch. These creatures can cause injury or death".
I'm not to worried ( should i Be ?), but i was wondering how often does death and injuries occur?
also, I have a problem with my lights, will the anemone die without my good lights on for 1-2 days ?
Thank you
 

kaotik

Member
All anemone are toxic. Injuries/stings will occur as many times as you touch it.
Death will probably not happen. Maybe if you got stung really bad and it got infected or something.
Anemone need strong lighting so they may not do very well if they have no light. 1-2 days might not kill it but make sure you get that light up and running soon!!
 

big boy69

Member
I have a Florida Condi and it like low water current and stays in between the rocks where it's dark???????
I must have a weird one. Mine moves around a lot also.
The one day it was in the sucker that goes into my canfilter.
The other morning it was at the top of the tank on the side of the glass. Then when i get home from work it's underneath the rock again. Who knows?
 

jeremyglen

Member
Anemones are kin to the jellyfish. If you are allergic to jellyfish, then an anemone sting will be just as bad.
I have only had one kind of anemone sting me, at least to where I felt it. I was cleaning my tank one day and my carpet(about 18in in diameter) got me on the soft skin towards the inside of my arm. It burned for the next few hours and I had a very metallic taste in my mouth, but nothing else happened. ALWAYS beware of the black long-tentacle anemones. My boss at the LFS I worked at touch one and his arm went numb for the rest of the day, it was funny.
As for the lights, I have been told that not having your lights on is alright in short doses. Most creatures are OK for a couple days without light. If you think about it, overcast or rainy days are probably pretty dark at 10-60ft below the surface of the water. As long as you get you light on there quick, it should be fine.
Also, I know that a lot of the flower anemones like to be in caves and under rocks out of direct light most of the time.
 

remy

Member
I was stung by a jellyfish when i was younger, hopefully it will be the same if i get stung... it wasn't too bad. But... really... when do i need to handle them? when I put them in the tank, that's all, right ?
There's no reason to touch them or move them around. Do you guys use Gloves or something ?
I have my old NO lights on for now.... Hopefully i get my lighting system up quickly.
 

kaotik

Member
Once you put them in the tank, they will move around and find a spot they like, so it doesnt really matter where you put it. Ive heard of people using gloves but just make sure the glove is long enough so that the tentacles cannot reach your bare arm. Someone else may have a better way to place them into a tank besides using gloves...??
 

remy

Member
Little problem again:
I received the Condi, and when I put it in the water, it went beind my rock work, on the Crushed coral, it's not really moving. It's between a rock and the glass. Should I leave it there ? or what?
 

jeremyglen

Member
Leave it alone for a few days. If it doesn't move, you can move it where you want. Just be careful if you try to move it because it may be stuck where it is and you don't want to pull too hard. If you move it too rough, you may rip it's foot or stress it too much. Once you move it, it will probably move back or wherever it wants. Just watch it for a while.
 

remy

Member
I can't find my royal gramma, im wondering if the anemone fell in front of the cave entrance.... But im not sure, I looked everywhere :/
 

enyates

Member
Well, I dont make it a habit, but I rearrange my enenomes alot lately... I use my bare hand, and as a clown fish would do, I move my hands in and out of the "stingers" to get them unsticky. I have two large carpets, a bubble tip, and a pink tip. I recently moved from one home to my new home, and of course had to set up the tank into a new tank too... I am not "stung" by any of my anenomes... I can understand that a carpet that is 18 inches would give a little sting, but once touched enough, it isnt a sting anymore... dont be afraid!!!
 

remy

Member
I'll have to try the bare hand thing i guess :)
I got my MH+PC lighting up, the anemone is doing fine!
I have a question about the water flow.
i have two RIO power heads ( I know every one hates RIO but i didnt know ) .. they are the smallest power heads they had ( 50s or something, i could be wrong ). I put them on full power on each side of the tank. Do i need to slow down the flow ? my anemone went from the top of the rock ( strong flow ) to behind the rock ( really low water flow). So does it mean that it just hates too much current?
another question about water flow:
I just got a blue tang (tiny -> 1 inch maybe) i will be moving him to a bigger tank in a few months. but for now he hangs out with my clown fish who lost his buddy yesterday to Brooklynella ( i just found out what it was, but it's too late... it happened so fast
).
ok.. the question: the tiny tiny blue tang looks like it's really trying hard to swim against the current.. so, should i slow down the flow ?
or is it just having fun..?
I love him, he's so cool to watch.. but i can't believe how tiny it is!! it's eating a lot and having fun with the clownfish. I read that i have to be careful with it because they get ick really easily. I'm prepared now. I hope my crabs don't kill him :( .. should i be worried ?
About crabs,, i've noticed a couple dead hermits in there... could it be my emralds or Arrow crab ?
Thanks!
 
X

xnikki118x

Guest
Don't know much about the water flow question, but arrow crabs have been known to kill anything they can. IMO, trade him to your LFS before you start losing fish.
 
T

thomas712

Guest

Originally posted by Remy
"Anemones have nematocysts, a.k.a. stinging cells, and can be dangerous to the touch. These creatures can cause injury or death".
I'm not to worried ( should i Be ?), but i was wondering how often does death and injuries occur?

Its really very rare, but some people do have a problem with it, I have other articles along this line, but like I said its very rare.
BRIEF REPORT
Fulminant Hepatic Failure from a Sea Anemone Sting
Patricia J. Garcia; Roland M. H. Schein; and Joseph W. Burnett
15 April 1994 | Volume 120 Issue 8 | Pages 665-666
Coelenterate stings can produce various local and systemic reactions. We report the first known case of fulminant hepatic failure attributable to a sea anemone sting. The patient, who developed hepatic failure within 3 days of envenomation, had negative hepatitis serologic tests and no other potential hepatotoxin exposure. A biopsy of the liver showed massive hepatic necrosis. The patient's serum tested positive for IgG by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) against Condylactis sp. antigen at a dilution of 1:450. We retrospectively tested serum from another man who had had transient elevations of liver function levels after a presumed coelenterate sting, and the titers to Condylactis sp. antigen were identically elevated.
A 28-year-old, previously healthy white man was transferred to Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, Florida, from St. Thomas, Virgin Islands, because of hepatic failure complicated by coma, severe coagulopathy, and acute renal failure. He had no history of alcohol or drug abuse or previous abnormal reaction to stings. The patient had sustained a sting from a sea anemone on the left scapula while free diving at 6 to 10 meters. Ten to 15 minutes after contact, he developed a vesicular eruption and severe pain in the back and arms. When he arrived at a local hospital approximately 30 minutes after the sting, he was alert and oriented and his vital signs were normal. Intravenous fluids and meperidine were administered during his 24-hour hospitalization. After discharge, he became progressively weak and lethargic and was rehospitalized 24 hours later with jaundice and elevated liver enzyme levels. Between hospitalizations he had remained in bed and taken no medications or alcohol. He was treated with piperacillin, aztreonam, dexamethasone, ranitidine, and bicarbonate. Because his neurologic status deteriorated further, 5 days after the sting he was endotracheally intubated and transferred to the intensive care unit at Jackson Memorial Hospital.
At arrival, he responded only to noxious stimuli. The remainder of the physical examination was normal except for jaundice and superficial ulcerations over the left scapular area Figure 1. Abnormal blood test results included prothrombin time, 75.2 s (normal range, 10.5 to 13.5 s); partial thromboplastin time, 74.5 s (normal range, 22.0 to 38.0 s); blood urea nitrogen, 15 mmol/L (42 mg/L); serum creatinine, 185 micromole/L (2.1 mg/dL); total bilirubin, 115 micromole/L (6.7 mg/dL); aspartate aminotransferase, 145 mu kat/L (8692 U/L); alanine aminotransferase, 155 mu kat/L (9313 U/L); and creatine kinase, 14.5 mu kat/L (872 U/L). A test for human immunodeficiency virus antibody (HIV) and hepatitis A, B, and C profiles were negative. Urine and blood toxicology studies were negative. During the next 3 days, the patient became progressively unresponsive. A computed tomographic scan showed a high-density area in the right temporal horn and posterior interhemispheric fissure and falx; the sulci were not visualized. The patient was treated for cerebral edema, although subarachnoid hemorrhage could not be excluded. In addition, he developed oliguric renal failure, with a serum creatinine of 813 micromole/L (9.2 mg/dL) and a urine sodium concentration of less than 10 mmol/L. The patient died after a liver and kidney were transplanted 4 days after he was transferred.
A biopsy of the explant liver showed massive necrosis with peripheral lobular regeneration throughout; the periportal area was clear. The kidneys showed mild tubular necrosis. Serum obtained 8 days after he was stung was positive by ELISA for IgG against Condylactis sp. antigen at a dilution of 1:450. The sea anemone identified by the patient's dive partners belonged to the group of Condylactis species Figure 2. Enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays for immunoglobulin G against other coelenterates were negative.
Contact with coelenterates accounts for most marine envenomations [1]. Coelenterates, a group of invertebrates, comprise more than 9000 species, of which approximately 100, belonging to the phylum Cnidaria, are recognized as venomous. The Cnidaria are subdivided into three classes: Hydrozoa, for example, Portuguese man-of-war; Schiphozoa, for example, jellyfish and sea nettle; and Anthozoa, for example, sea anemone and corals. Cnidaria inflict their stings with organelles, called nematocysts, located in their epithelial tissues [2]. These structures contain coiled polypeptide toxin-coated threads that can be expelled with a force of 2 to 5 psi and penetrate the nerve- and vascular-rich dermis [3].
Previously reported coelenterate envenomation syndromes include local reactions induced directly by the toxin; recurrent, delayed, or persistent reactions (fat atrophy, mononeuritis multiplex); and systemic sequelae of varying severity. Anaphylactic shock, acute renal failure, and sudden cardiac or respiratory arrest have reportedly caused death [4,5,6].
This patient's massive hepatic necrosis seems to have been caused by a toxin. The patient had no detectable antecedent liver disease, and his serologic tests for viral hepatitis A, B, and C were negative. The patient was not hypotensive after the sting, and no autopsy findings indicated other forms of ischemic liver injury. Although a MEDLINE search showed no previous reports linking coelenterate envenomation with acute hepatic failure, coelenterate-induced hepatic injury has been shown in rats challenged with intravenous sea nettle venom [7]. Mid-zonal liver necrosis and renal tubular damage were detected in the absence of alteration in central hemodynamic variables. The difference in histologic findings between this animal model and our patient may be related to species variability (mid-zonal necrosis is rare in humans) or to the short course of the animal experiments [8].
We are aware of only one report of hepatic injury after a presumed coelenterate sting in humans [9]. A Florida man experienced local pain, eruption, vomiting, and elevation of liver enzymes for more than 16 days. When we tested his serum retrospectively for titers against Condylactis sp. antigen, we found them to be identical to those of the patient whose case we report.
Specific anti-jellyfish IgG serum concentrations may appear a few days after envenomation and persist for many months. Significant titers have been defined as those positive after dilutions of 50-fold or greater. In a serologic study, each of 74 jellyfish-envenomated patients had clinically significant IgG titers, whereas 5 false-positive reactions occurred in 30 control patients [10]. When positive titers were present to several species, the antigen titer from the known offending species was the highest, thus supporting use of the ELISA as a diagnostic test.
Because coelenterate envenomation may produce acute hepatic injury, increased awareness may lead to better reporting of cases and stricter reinforcement of the use of protective diving clothing and early first-aid measures. Our experience emphasizes that care of the severely affected patient should take this clinical possibility into account.
Acknowledgments: The authors thank Dr. George Hensley for preparation of pathology specimens, Dr. Eugene Schiff for review of the manuscript, and Mrs. Jan Kampka and the Medical Media staff for technical assistance in the preparation of the manuscript.
From the University of Miami School of Medicine and the Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Miami, Florida, and the University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, Maryland.
Requests for Reprints: Patricia J. Garcia, MD, Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Medical Service RF 111, N.W. 16th Street, Miami, FL 33125.
References
1. McGoldrick J, Marx JA. Marine envenomations. Part 2: Invertebrates. J Emerg Med. 1992;10:71-7.[Medline]
2. Halstead BW. Poisonous and Venomous Marine Animals of the World. 2d rev. ed. Princeton, New Jersey: Darwin Press; 1988:105-31.
3. Burnett JW, Calton GJ. Jellyfish envenomation syndromes updated. Ann Emerg Med. 1987;9:1000-5.
4. Maretic Z, Russell FE. Stings by the sea anemone Anemonia sulcata in the Adriatic Sea. Am J Trop Med Hyg. 1983;32:891-6.[Medline]
5. Burnett JW, Calton GJ, Burnett HW, Mandojana RM. Local and systemic reactions from jellyfish stings. Clin Dermatol. 1987;5:14-28.[Medline]
6. Filling-Katz MR. Mononeuritis multiplex following jellyfish stings (Letter). Ann Neurol. 1984;15:213.
7. Muhvich K, Sengottuvelu S, Manson PN, Myers R, Burnett JW, Marzella L. Pathophysiology of sea nettle (Chrysaora quinquecirrha), envenomation in a rat model and the effects of hyperbaric oxygen and verapamil treatment. Toxicon. 1991;29:857-66.[Medline]
8. Roderick NM, McSween PP, Anthony P, Scheuer PJ, eds. Pathology of the Liver. New York: Churchill Livingstone; 1979:335-51.
9. Burnett JW. Human injuries following jellyfish stings. Md Med J. 1992;41:509-13.
10. Burnett JW, Calton GJ, Fenner PJ, Williamson JA. Serological diagnosis of jellyfish envenomations. Comp Biochem Physiol (C). 1988;91:79-83.
 

remy

Member
my two condy anemone fell on eachother. Are they going to sting eachother and die? Should I move them?
 

enyates

Member
I have seen in my LFS when they actually have anenomes in, that they have them in the same tank, and they are usually in one corner chilling together.. I dont believe they can kill each other...
In my home tank, my bubble tip is sitting next to my carpet anenome, and I think they are having some type of party or something....LOL I am also hoping that the clownfish would just go from "home" to "home"
Hope this helps you.
 
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