Dealing with the uglies

[florida joe]

Muscles in white wine sauce and grilled baby octopus now you are talking. Just my own .02 as far as the cyano bacteria . Sometimes you just have to go with chemicals. I have found Chemiclear to work very well. Just a little tip. they suggest adding an air stone when you are treating. You can simply remove the collection cup for a protein skimmer and run it. it will introduce more the enough aeration

 

[Shilpan]

Thanks for the tips with both the food and the chemiclear, I see it says a bacteriacidal so I guess that would do the job quite well. I'll give it a few months first.

Haha my family looked at my tank and said "Wow that's so cool! Look at all the purple and red and green patches on the sand and rocks!"

They think it looks nice and colourful hahahaha

And thanks Joe for the airstone tip! You reckon I give it 1-2 months? Or longer? I'm unsure how long this ugly stage lasts usually.

 

[florida joe]

If you are talking about the cyano it depends on how diligent you are at syphoning it off. As it is bacteria and not algae it can take over a tank in a short period of time. One more thing about cyano. People say that it only appears in areas of low flow. I personally found that to be NOT true. BTW are you sure what you are seeing on the rocks is Cyano.

 

[Shilpan]

Oh yup I think it is cyano, it looks exactly like the pictures and the patches which have been growing for a while have stringy red algae coming off them which can be blown off with a wave of the hand

 

[florida joe]

yea then its cyano

 

[2quills]

Joe, would it behoove you to know that I agree with your assessment that high flow does not deter cyano?

 

[florida joe]

Be still my beating heart. seriously i see that assumption all the time and as you and i know my friend it is NOT true

 

[Shilpan]

Hahahaha 2 quills...

Oh hmm...I have 2 powerheads on either side of the tank and they are located near the back of the tank.

The cyano (majority) is growing in the front middle of the tank.

But I don't know if that's a flow thing, a light thing, or something to do with that small piece of live rock have GSP on it or being low near the ground or something else...

 

[florida joe]

Before we condemn Cyano as the scourge of our tanks lets read this
Cyanobacteria
Cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) are microorganisms that structurally resemble bacteria (they lack a nucleus and organelles ). However, unlike other bacteria, cyanobacteria contain chlorophyll a and conduct oxygenic photosynthesis. Cyanobacteria are approximately 2.5 billion years old and thus are the oldest oxygenic phototrophs on Earth. The early evolution of Earth's oxygen-rich atmosphere is most likely due to cyanobacterial photosynthesis. UMM seems like we may own them a thank you

 

[2quills]

Cyano is a unique bacteria. But it actually functions much like algae does. They are single celled organisms grouping together in a mass. Typically exist in the system unseen unless conditions are favorable for it to form in large quantities.

Aiming power heads at it simply causes the cells to spread out vs kill it in my experience.

 

[Shilpan]

Ok so...

Cutting lights will help
Nutrient control will help

I thought it's weakly attaching an drew so high flow makes it difficult to establish on rocks and makes it float around in the water coloumn until it finds a lower flow area or is skimmed out?

 

[lmforbis]

I thing the only thing high flow does to deter cyanogen is it keeps crap from settling in low flow areas

 

[2quills]

I think a few key things you can do to help would be eliminate as many of its primary building blocks as you can't.

Maintain low nutrient levels.

Increase flow to help increase oxygen levels and keep co2 levels down in the display.

Reduce any unessisary light in the display until it gets under control. This of course is more difficult when you're trying to keep corals alive. But since we know cyano is photosynthetic then we know light is the primary limiting driver here. It can make its own food from various nitrogen sources and light alone.

I believe it also utilizes phosphate some how to help them group together and form in mass just don't ask me to explain it. But it can still thrive with levels lower than what our hobby grade kits can detect.

 

[Shilpan]

What are your opinions on a tank black out?

I just have GSP and a leather so they'll be all good for a few days without light.

Haha I left a small GSP frag on the tank "rim" where it was just staying moist within a water puddle by accident, I put in back in the tank after 10hrs and it opened up the next day. This thing is immortal

 

[florida joe]

Just my own .,02 you are always going to encounter cyano at sometime as long as you maintain a tank. its something we have to live with, I would not black out the tank unless you are really going to do a black out. no lights and cover the tank so there is no ambient light. FYI In tropical countries, it may have been a very important part of the diet, and was eaten regularly by the Aztecs;

 

[2quills]

Probably explains why they were so crazy then. Cyano toxins aren't something I'd go out of my way to eat lol.

I would just proceed with caution and try to avoid a mass die off of the stuff in a very short period of time.

Cyano has benefits but it has more downsides in our systems. Products like chemi clean aren't a solution. And if it's an anti bacteria then what would that mean for the rest of the biological filtration?

You can manage this however you want. Personally, this last time I left it alone to grow in the fuge for a while. When it began showing signs it wasn't really thriving anymore I cleaned it all out and it never really came back.

From time to time I may see a small patch develop on the side of the fuge wall, meanwhile there's a nice juicy spot of detritus not far and yet it decides to develop on the acrylic instead. It's crazy stuff.

Instead of a black out I would slowly faze down the photo period in the display and increase it for the refugium. Typically it lasts maybe a month or two after setting up a new tank. So far what you are experiencing is normal. No reason to freak out yet.

 

[lmforbis]

I spent a week diving in Bonaire in the summer and I was surprised how much cyano and algae I saw on one of the best preserved reefs in the Caribean.

 

[florida joe]

while i will admit that chemiclean is a band aid it WILL remove the cyano quickly while you address the underlining cause. I have used it before and its been around for a long time. like anything we add to our tank following the instructions for dosage is paramount. I have never seen any data stating that the ingredients are detrimental to the nitrification bacteria in our tanks

 

[deejeff0442]

I have always just did more frequent small water changes and sucked the cyno out. never really lasted more then a month

 

[2quills]

while i will admit that chemiclean is a band aid it WILL remove the cyano quickly while you address the underlining cause. I have used it before and its been around for a long time. like anything we add to our tank following the instructions for dosage is paramount. I have never seen any data stating that the ingredients are detrimental to the nitrification bacteria in our tanks

For as long as it's been around it looks like people have been trying to get the manufacturer to admit what active ingredient they are using.

I think the closest thing we have was a study done by the German government who deemed it as a medication that shouldn't be sold over the counter and indicate that it's an antibiotic (kills bacteria). Either a growth inhibitor or oxidizer. I'm leaning towards the latter based on how quickly it destroys the bacteria.

It was late last night so I didn't track down the study. But did find a pretty informative discussion on the nano forum where Mr. Farley said that the German study simply confirmed what some industry insiders already believed about the product.

It sounds like the stuff has real potential to disrupt the nitrogen cycle. Plenty of threads out there with people claiming crashes or deaths from its use. Why else would they recommend increasing oxygen? It has to be either from ammonia spikes or cyano toxins being released into the water column.

Cyano feeds on ammonia and nitrate as you know.