Deep Sand Bed - Advice Needed

[sid67ii]

I set my tank up a couple months back, and it seemed like all the advice I read said that Deep Sand Beds were the best thing since sliced bread. Therefore, I put one in my tank when I set it up. Really, I put a deep bed at one end, then let it get shallower as it went across for purpose of looks, but at least half the tank has sand deep enough to be considered DSB.
The other day, when I went to buy frags off of someone, I mentioned the DSB in my tank. They told me that DSBs were very tricky, and should only be incorporated by people who really knew what they were doing and did everything very carefully. They said they'd heard of toxins or gasses building up under the sand and eventually erupting and nuking the tank.
The sand is there, and I don't want to try to take it out. Also, it seems to be working well, since my NOs are so low, and my fish likes it. I've tried to find a good advice section on them in the forums, but haven't been able to. Could someone give me some good pointers for their use, or at least direct me to some good information on them?
Thanks!

 

[lecithin]

The sand bed has to be kept in check by a CUC that gets in there and moves the sand around. I use Nassarius snails, they move around in the sand bed and surface when its feeding time.

 

[salty blues]

I believe that 1 journeyman has several theads with advice on DSB's. You might try a search there.

 

[tacoma38]

i think you are fine.but I suggest changing out your sand every 3 yrs maybe 4..Yes they do fill up with stuff over time and then crash.Just do all you can to keep it turned and cleaned.And you tank will be a happy tank.Kinda like a car air filter,all filters get full.

 

[firerescue]

Just my 2 cents but I don't think it would be a good idea to change your sand every 3 to 4 years. I would think that would cause more problems. I would just get alot of nassarius snails and maybe a sand sifting starfish to just keep it mixed.

 

[sid67ii]

I guess my worry is just the fact that my sand is a few inches deep. Will the snails burrow deep enough to keep the sand further down stirred and clean?

 

[firerescue]

How deep is the deepest part.

 

[dennis210]

DSB's are just fine. Shouls be at least 5" deep. Get some nassarius snails, super tongan (bigger nassarius snails), some cerith snails, and a sand sifter like a diamond watchman goby. You can either buy a detrivore kit, or get a cup of sand from other reef tanks and put it in yours. Once you get a "bunch of little critters" moving within the sand they to are moving it!
The sand bed will act on it's own then. Down the road as sand is actually dissolved by system (annarovic vrs aerobic and more acidic pH deep in sand bed) you will add to it, but you don't ever want to stir, mix, or shift the deeper layers as they will crash a tank!

 

[1journeyman]

Mostly good advice here, but a couple of corrections I would make. Remember, this is just my opinion.
I have a deep sand bed currently in my 180. I had a DSB in my 210 that I moved to this 180 (left the job I was at where I kept my tank).
The DSB was clean when I moved it. My Nitrates can up only a little bit after I moved the tank. Did one water change, let the tank settle a week, and water was back to normal. So, based on my experience, I don't believe a properly setup DSB collects toxins and must be changed out.
*A DSB needs to be deep in order to function properly. 4 inches and above is what I prefer. Some experts have noted you get anaerobic bacteria at 3 inches, but I like a "comfort" zone of 4 inches. Intermediate depth beds are certainly a possible timebomb.
*Strong flow needed. 20x-30x's GPH
*Brisk skimming
*Plenty of surface sand stirring critters.
*Sand bed needs to be seeded with quality live sand to introduce proper worms, pods, micro stars, etc.
*NO SAND SIFTING FISH.... In my opinion, this is one of the issues often overlooked by hobbyists with DSBs. The whole point of paying out the nose for live sand is to get the millions of beneficial critters that keep the top inch of the bed stirred and clean. A Sand Sifting Fish eats these critters...
I'm also a huge fan of Nass. snails.
Now, having said all of that, and having stated often have happy I am with my sand bed, I must say results vary. One of the other Mods here had a tank crash and suspects the DSB went bad on him.

 

[acrylic51]

I have to agree with 1Journeyman......The key is the maintenance on the DSB.....Alot of people believe, or under the assumption that the sand will continue to filter or control, but once that sand bed becomes compacted and full, there is no place for anything else to be consumed in the sand bed, and that is when they become issues.....

 

[earlybird]

I agree and would add that everyone in this hobby should replace or add "some" sand every 12-24 months.

 

[beth]

Personally I love DSBs. They are an ecosystem in and of themselves that provide a great deal of interest and opportunity to learn new things. Yes, it requires maintenance care in the form of seeding and encouraging the growth of sand dwelling detritovores, but to me, this is fun...as opposed to siphoning sand to get it cleaned the old fashion way. Changing out the sandbed defeats the purpose of having one, but you do need to seed the bed with a bit of new live sand occasionally, to encourage the introduction of "new blood" into the sandbed ecology, and also add sandbed fauna from time to time.
I would say that if sandbed care does not interest you, then DSBs may not be for you. You have to cosider the sandbed on a par with other living things in your tank and care for it accordingly.
How deep is your DSB?

 

[acrylic51]

Why not see if Steve Weast will comment on removing a portion of sand in his huge setup????

 

[sid67ii]

Thanks for everyone's help!
My DSB is about 6 inches deep at it's deepest to about 3 inches deep at it's shallowest. My tank is four feet long, so probably three feet could classify as a deep sand bed (because the last foot or so of tank is a bit shallower sand under my rocks). 1journeyman mentioned "intermediate depth beds", so is it a problem that part of my tank is in this category? If so, what should I do - add more sand to raise the depth?
I did seed the sand with live sand when I set it up, and I do have what some people have called "sea fleas" running around in it, and little centipede looking creatures (way too small to be bristle worms, though, I think). I did have a lot more, though, so I think 1journeyman is right, and my sand sifters have been eating them. My only sand sifting fish is an engineer goby, but I think my emerald crab has been eating all the little bugs I had.
Is there a way to get some sort of organisms that specifically tunnel through deep sand (but much smaller than fish) like tiny shellfish or something? Do you think the LFS in my area will specifically sell detritovores? I do enjoy the ecology of the sand bed, and I really liked the bugs when they were more numerous. The fact that my reef tank is so much more of an ecosystem than my freshwater tank is my favorite thing about it.

 

[reefmate75]

Originally Posted by sid67ii
Thanks for everyone's help!
My DSB is about 6 inches deep at it's deepest to about 3 inches deep at it's shallowest. My tank is four feet long, so probably three feet could classify as a deep sand bed (because the last foot or so of tank is a bit shallower sand under my rocks). 1journeyman mentioned "intermediate depth beds", so is it a problem that part of my tank is in this category? If so, what should I do - add more sand to raise the depth?
I did seed the sand with live sand when I set it up, and I do have what some people have called "sea fleas" running around in it, and little centipede looking creatures (way too small to be bristle worms, though, I think). I did have a lot more, though, so I think 1journeyman is right, and my sand sifters have been eating them. My only sand sifting fish is an engineer goby, but I think my emerald crab has been eating all the little bugs I had.
Is there a way to get some sort of organisms that specifically tunnel through deep sand (but much smaller than fish) like tiny shellfish or something? Do you think the LFS in my area will specifically sell detritovores? I do enjoy the ecology of the sand bed, and I really liked the bugs when they were more numerous. The fact that my reef tank is so much more of an ecosystem than my freshwater tank is my favorite thing about it.
cleaner clams...they arnt pretty...but they do move slowly through the sand bed and stir it up without displaceing any of the sand up into the water..conchs would be another good choice as they stay right near the serface aswell...and them little bugs that were mentioned...they are great little critters for eatting that food that was to small for your fish to think about eating...waste removers! gotta love them...oh did i mention im a garbage man??? you should love me too hahaha

JK im a welder =(

 

[scopus tang]

I use nassarius snails - awesome little buggers! There is a larger variety of these as well, but I can't tell you what they are called - I've also never used them, but I know some who have

.

 

[1journeyman]

Nass. snails do a great job at cleaning the top part of the sand and keeping it stirred.
I would add at least an inch to the 3 inch portion, if you want the benefits of a dsb. If your tank is being properly circulated and has shifters the sand will even our over time.
An Engineer Goby really isn't a "sand sifter" as much as a sand "shifter". They burrow a lot, but don't really prey on your critters very often. He should be fine. Be sure though that your rock is placed on the bottom of your tank. Shifters can burrow under the sand and undermine your rock work.