snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
Benefits of each? Where is it best used? Why should one do it? Processes? What can be done to maintain it in each case?
Deep sand bed vs. shallow sb, vs barebottom
- Thread starter snakeblitz33
- Start date
lilclowns
Member
Ok, I got this one. A deep sand bed provides good filtration, and a nice little buffer for the tank- provide a good CUC to maintain. I hear they are pretty good to have in a refugium. With barebottom you don't have to worry about algae growths or whatever on the sand, also it i easier to clean up. I think with a shallow sand bed, it doesn't have as an effective way of getting rid of nitrates as a DSB. Yeah, that's it. I hope I answered right
acrylic51
Active Member
Disagree with the first post.......
A DSB is required for good filtration.....That is a PROVEN fact when a BB tank can more than efficiently support a tank.....BB tanks allow high flow without the worries of sand storms.....Good at keeping the tank low on nutrients.....Does limit possibly certain inhabitants of your tank......SSB are also efficient.....If you do a little reading denitrification/nitrification can and does take place within 3/4" of a sand bed......
I might add something to my original disagreement on a DSB....Does very little as buffering capacity....Again that point is proven with tanks run BB......
I might add something to my original disagreement on a DSB....Does very little as buffering capacity....Again that point is proven with tanks run BB......
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
My take:
Sand doesn't buffer the water at all.
Deep sand beds are great for denitrification, but should be used in separate containers or in a refugium, and never a display tank. I think that some critters should be used to maintain a deep sand bed, like cleaner clams, nassarius snails and other diggers, maybe even a pistol shrimp/goby pair. Just enough to keep it all maintained. I believe that they should also be completely cleaned every two to three years... and use a gravel vac with a small siphon to siphon out some of the top layers of detritus about once every six months or so for maintenance.
Shallow sand beds don't have much of a benefit other then aesthetics. They still need some clean up crew to help maintain the sandbed. They also provide a medium for some fish and inverts to hide in and feel comfortable, but they have no real use in creating denitrification zones or any buffering and filtering capacities.
Barebottom tanks offer a more sterile environment, but I think that by eliminating sand from the system overall can actually cause an imbalance, without certain beneficial microorganisms to help filter the water. Barebottom tanks also need to be maintained, and some fish and cleanup crew members can not be used because of the lack of sand. Barebottom tanks require high flow rates, but they still need detritus and fish waste regularly siphoned off the bottom of the tank.
If you think about how much waste is siphoned off the bottom of a barebottom tank... where is all that waste going if you have a sandbed? What happens over time if you don't maintain the sandbed and get rid of that waste?
Sand doesn't buffer the water at all.
Deep sand beds are great for denitrification, but should be used in separate containers or in a refugium, and never a display tank. I think that some critters should be used to maintain a deep sand bed, like cleaner clams, nassarius snails and other diggers, maybe even a pistol shrimp/goby pair. Just enough to keep it all maintained. I believe that they should also be completely cleaned every two to three years... and use a gravel vac with a small siphon to siphon out some of the top layers of detritus about once every six months or so for maintenance.
Shallow sand beds don't have much of a benefit other then aesthetics. They still need some clean up crew to help maintain the sandbed. They also provide a medium for some fish and inverts to hide in and feel comfortable, but they have no real use in creating denitrification zones or any buffering and filtering capacities.
Barebottom tanks offer a more sterile environment, but I think that by eliminating sand from the system overall can actually cause an imbalance, without certain beneficial microorganisms to help filter the water. Barebottom tanks also need to be maintained, and some fish and cleanup crew members can not be used because of the lack of sand. Barebottom tanks require high flow rates, but they still need detritus and fish waste regularly siphoned off the bottom of the tank.
If you think about how much waste is siphoned off the bottom of a barebottom tank... where is all that waste going if you have a sandbed? What happens over time if you don't maintain the sandbed and get rid of that waste?
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
Shallow sand beds do have some filtering capacity at 3/4", but how often is the sandbed stirred up in high flow tanks and tanks with sand stirring fish and critters? I just don't see that much denitrification happening at that depth, even though it does occur.
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilclowns http:///t/390460/deep-sand-bed-vs-shallow-sb-vs-barebottom#post_3458051
True, but won't a barebottom not provide nutrients or beneficial bacteria like a sand bed would?
Look closely at BB SPS dominated tanks......It's obvious that sand beds aren't needed to keep a tank thriving......A sand bed without proper maintenance IMHO becomes a "sewage dump"...I look at it this way......A septic tank in a home holds and breaks down sewage.....What happens if you don't pump it out from time to time.....Same with a sand bed IMHO.......
Originally Posted by lilclowns http:///t/390460/deep-sand-bed-vs-shallow-sb-vs-barebottom#post_3458051
True, but won't a barebottom not provide nutrients or beneficial bacteria like a sand bed would?
Look closely at BB SPS dominated tanks......It's obvious that sand beds aren't needed to keep a tank thriving......A sand bed without proper maintenance IMHO becomes a "sewage dump"...I look at it this way......A septic tank in a home holds and breaks down sewage.....What happens if you don't pump it out from time to time.....Same with a sand bed IMHO.......
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/390460/deep-sand-bed-vs-shallow-sb-vs-barebottom#post_3458052
My take:
Sand doesn't buffer the water at all.
Deep sand beds are great for denitrification, but should be used in separate containers or in a refugium, and never a display tank. I think that some critters should be used to maintain a deep sand bed, like cleaner clams, nassarius snails and other diggers, maybe even a pistol shrimp/goby pair. Just enough to keep it all maintained. I believe that they should also be completely cleaned every two to three years... and use a gravel vac with a small siphon to siphon out some of the top layers of detritus about once every six months or so for maintenance.
Shallow sand beds don't have much of a benefit other then aesthetics. They still need some clean up crew to help maintain the sandbed. They also provide a medium for some fish and inverts to hide in and feel comfortable, but they have no real use in creating denitrification zones or any buffering and filtering capacities.
Barebottom tanks offer a more sterile environment, but I think that by eliminating sand from the system overall can actually cause an imbalance, without certain beneficial microorganisms to help filter the water. Barebottom tanks also need to be maintained, and some fish and cleanup crew members can not be used because of the lack of sand. Barebottom tanks require high flow rates, but they still need detritus and fish waste regularly siphoned off the bottom of the tank.
If you think about how much waste is siphoned off the bottom of a barebottom tank... where is all that waste going if you have a sandbed? What happens over time if you don't maintain the sandbed and get rid of that waste?
geoj
Active Member
Shallow sand beds do have some filtering capacity at 3/4", but how often is the sandbed stirred up in high flow tanks and tanks with sand stirring fish and critters? I just don't see that much denitrification happening at that depth, even though it does occur.
I like the shallow sandbed as I can't get the cuc I would like to use in the DSB
Nutrient export shoallow sandbed
)):
flower
Well-Known Member
BB tanks are great for hospital and quarantine tanks...paint the bottom outside black..ugly but funtional. The sand looks nice at two inches...more natural, which is why we call it the Display tank, it looks good. The DSB belongs under the cabinet in a refugium, doing what it should do without being seen.
CUC keeps the shallow sand in the display very nice...the DSB in the fuge has plenty of critters eating and stirring the same. My fuge sand looks great, there are no wasted layers on top and I can see the side of the fuge tank...I see vertical lines where the diggers have dug...worms all the way down. I do not see horizotal lines where toxins hide. My refugium only has deep sand and a few rocks in it...no light and no macros.
CUC keeps the shallow sand in the display very nice...the DSB in the fuge has plenty of critters eating and stirring the same. My fuge sand looks great, there are no wasted layers on top and I can see the side of the fuge tank...I see vertical lines where the diggers have dug...worms all the way down. I do not see horizotal lines where toxins hide. My refugium only has deep sand and a few rocks in it...no light and no macros.
novahobbies
Well-Known Member
I keep a SSB in the horse tank -- about 1.5 inches. I can't use a sand sifting fish in this tank due to seahorse food competition, so I regularly siphon off a little of the top layer (usually in patches) when I do tank maintenance to remove fish waste, debris, and occasional red algae patches. I realize that this also impacts the 'pod life on the top layer, but you have to take the good with the bad. Every so often I add a couple scoops of fresh sand to the system to replenish the stuff I've siphoned off.
It's worth noting that when I DID keep a small sand sifting goby in here the sandbed always looked pristine. He would break up horse poo during his scooping duties which allowed it to be filtered out easier.
I feel like DSBs should be maintained separately if they're going to be used, but that's just me. I don't want my tank showing off 6 inches of sand depth is all. I've never owned a BB tank, unless you count QT and hospital, so I don't have much input there. I've seen BB display tanks that look good....however....I've also seen BB display tanks that look "not so good."
My personal favorite for a Display is still the SSB system. When the 110 gets set up again, I'm going for 2 inches of black sand with a blue background. Should be interesting.
It's worth noting that when I DID keep a small sand sifting goby in here the sandbed always looked pristine. He would break up horse poo during his scooping duties which allowed it to be filtered out easier.
I feel like DSBs should be maintained separately if they're going to be used, but that's just me. I don't want my tank showing off 6 inches of sand depth is all. I've never owned a BB tank, unless you count QT and hospital, so I don't have much input there. I've seen BB display tanks that look good....however....I've also seen BB display tanks that look "not so good."
My personal favorite for a Display is still the SSB system. When the 110 gets set up again, I'm going for 2 inches of black sand with a blue background. Should be interesting.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/390460/deep-sand-bed-vs-shallow-sb-vs-barebottom#post_3458455
I keep a SSB in the horse tank -- about 1.5 inches. I can't use a sand sifting fish in this tank due to seahorse food competition, so I regularly siphon off a little of the top layer (usually in patches) when I do tank maintenance to remove fish waste, debris, and occasional red algae patches. I realize that this also impacts the 'pod life on the top layer, but you have to take the good with the bad. Every so often I add a couple scoops of fresh sand to the system to replenish the stuff I've siphoned off.
I have never siphoned my sand. My little Hectors goby in the SH tank, sifts the sand just like the big sleeper goby did in the reef tank...I see him grab the sand and watch the few grains fall. My sand in the horse tank looks great...I also have quite a few nassarius snails.
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/390460/deep-sand-bed-vs-shallow-sb-vs-barebottom#post_3458455
I keep a SSB in the horse tank -- about 1.5 inches. I can't use a sand sifting fish in this tank due to seahorse food competition, so I regularly siphon off a little of the top layer (usually in patches) when I do tank maintenance to remove fish waste, debris, and occasional red algae patches. I realize that this also impacts the 'pod life on the top layer, but you have to take the good with the bad. Every so often I add a couple scoops of fresh sand to the system to replenish the stuff I've siphoned off.
I have never siphoned my sand. My little Hectors goby in the SH tank, sifts the sand just like the big sleeper goby did in the reef tank...I see him grab the sand and watch the few grains fall. My sand in the horse tank looks great...I also have quite a few nassarius snails.
novahobbies
Well-Known Member
Hector's....hmmmm. I've seen youtube videos of Rainford's gobys doing that, now that you mention it.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/390460/deep-sand-bed-vs-shallow-sb-vs-barebottom#post_3458557
Hector's....hmmmm. I've seen youtube videos of Rainford's gobys doing that, now that you mention it.
I was surprised about the Hectors goby...I got him for eating algae.
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/390460/deep-sand-bed-vs-shallow-sb-vs-barebottom#post_3458557
Hector's....hmmmm. I've seen youtube videos of Rainford's gobys doing that, now that you mention it.
I was surprised about the Hectors goby...I got him for eating algae.
reefkprz
Active Member
DSB: good for denitrification, good for various life forms that burrow or require sand bed microfauna as part of their diet. easier to create a wave or sloped sand profile
Cons: risky for the inexperienced as over disturbing anoxic zones can lead to tank problems. OTS (old tank syndrome)
SSB good for some denitrification though not as reliable for it as dsb, good for most sand dwelling critters, low risk of anoxic toxicity. relatively easy to maintain
cons: not good for deep burrowing critters, unreliable for denitrification
BB : great for super high flow sps tanks, quarantine. super easy to maintain
cons: not attractive to me, unable to support sand dwellers
Cons: risky for the inexperienced as over disturbing anoxic zones can lead to tank problems. OTS (old tank syndrome)
SSB good for some denitrification though not as reliable for it as dsb, good for most sand dwelling critters, low risk of anoxic toxicity. relatively easy to maintain
cons: not good for deep burrowing critters, unreliable for denitrification
BB : great for super high flow sps tanks, quarantine. super easy to maintain
cons: not attractive to me, unable to support sand dwellers