difference between red and black lion
- Thread starter luv4jjt
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saxman
Guest
that's a valid question, with a somewhat convoluted answer:
P. volitans can be found in several color morphs:
almost completely black, white w/black stripes, white w/brown stripes, and whitle w/reddish stripes. while these fish look different, they are all indeed P. volitans.
now here's the kicker:
P. russellii (Russell's lionfish) are often sold as "red volitans", and while closely related, are not the same fish. P. russellii can be distinguished from P. volitans in that their caudal, ventral, and second dorsal fins are clear (no spots), the body striping pattern is much more open (fewer and more widely spaced stripes), and the lack of a striped pattern beneath their chins. the banding on the pectorals is also more widely spaced. they also only grow to about 10" as opposed to 15".
i actually asked a friend who owns a LFS why he mis-ID's Russell's lions as "red volitans" and he told me that "it keeps it simple, and anyone who is up on lions will know the difference".
the care for both species is the same.
Check out Frank Marini's excellent lionfish care article for pix and descriptions of both fish.
HTH
P. volitans can be found in several color morphs:
almost completely black, white w/black stripes, white w/brown stripes, and whitle w/reddish stripes. while these fish look different, they are all indeed P. volitans.
now here's the kicker:
P. russellii (Russell's lionfish) are often sold as "red volitans", and while closely related, are not the same fish. P. russellii can be distinguished from P. volitans in that their caudal, ventral, and second dorsal fins are clear (no spots), the body striping pattern is much more open (fewer and more widely spaced stripes), and the lack of a striped pattern beneath their chins. the banding on the pectorals is also more widely spaced. they also only grow to about 10" as opposed to 15".
i actually asked a friend who owns a LFS why he mis-ID's Russell's lions as "red volitans" and he told me that "it keeps it simple, and anyone who is up on lions will know the difference".
the care for both species is the same.
Check out Frank Marini's excellent lionfish care article for pix and descriptions of both fish.
HTH
fmarini
Member
Hard to beat namxas scholarly answer.
the main different between a "red" and "black" volitans is...the color. Assuming your talking about P volitans.
There are just a variety of what are called "locale" morphs- essentially the same fish-just differences in colors based on environmental pressures/selection.
My suspicion is what Greg alludes to, most time red lionfish are really mis-ID P russelii, and when you see a black voltians-its most likely a black morph P volitans (although we can get into confusion about P miles(which is a smaller black version of P volitans, and now P andover which appears to be a small version of the red P volitans)
maybe a useless fact-but- Russells lions are actually spelled russelii(1-L and 2-I's) the guy its named after is actually Russeli (rue-sell, a french name), so we in the hobby have spelt it & pronounced it wrong for years., infact there are three accepted misspellings of the fish's name. But is has stuck as a common name"Russells lions".
the main different between a "red" and "black" volitans is...the color. Assuming your talking about P volitans.
There are just a variety of what are called "locale" morphs- essentially the same fish-just differences in colors based on environmental pressures/selection.
My suspicion is what Greg alludes to, most time red lionfish are really mis-ID P russelii, and when you see a black voltians-its most likely a black morph P volitans (although we can get into confusion about P miles(which is a smaller black version of P volitans, and now P andover which appears to be a small version of the red P volitans)
maybe a useless fact-but- Russells lions are actually spelled russelii(1-L and 2-I's) the guy its named after is actually Russeli (rue-sell, a french name), so we in the hobby have spelt it & pronounced it wrong for years., infact there are three accepted misspellings of the fish's name. But is has stuck as a common name"Russells lions".
luv4jjt
Member
Well when i talked to my husdband that night he said he did want him. So we went to the LFS yesterday and he was still there. He looks real good and heallthy and well fed. We gave him a guppy last night and he went for it right away. ( guppy's are from our own stock and only till we can get him to take frozen) I will get some pics of him in a few and post them as soon as i can.
So our stocklist ended up being---- 1 sea goblin, 1 volitan, and one powder blue is going into the tank next week. If biologically that don't end up being a strain on the tank then maybe we will consider one more fish when we know everything will stay stable. But if it seems like to much on the tank then thats it. Here's a better pic of him.
So our stocklist ended up being---- 1 sea goblin, 1 volitan, and one powder blue is going into the tank next week. If biologically that don't end up being a strain on the tank then maybe we will consider one more fish when we know everything will stay stable. But if it seems like to much on the tank then thats it. Here's a better pic of him.
luv4jjt
Member
about 4 weeks. We fell in love with him. He was in qt for 21/2. just went in the dt about a week ago. He had us worried that he wasn't eating the shrimp we put in there but he must be when we are not looking because he's still kickin and healthy looking? How long have you had yours? And any help you can give us on this guy would be great. It's hard to find care info on them.
cranberry
Active Member
We got ours in April of '09. GREAT fish.... one of my favs. But just know they are a stingfish and share common DNA with stonefish, so their sting packs way more of a punch than say, a volitans. Their spines are also shorter and stiffer meaning they can deliver a greater volume of venom once struck, as well.
Have a nice sand bed so he can cover up in it.... many times you'll just see his head throughout the day.
He shouldn't move around too much unless he's hungry or ticked. Ours moves over to the feeding corner and stares at it when he's hungry. The pic shows him waiting for the PE mysis to rain down from the heavens....
What are you feeding yours?
Your voli, when he's an adult, will be able to slurp in that ghoul if he was so inclined. I was going to put mine in a bunch of different tanks but ended up deciding to give him his own 40g cube. He's too precious to risk, IMO.
I'm so excited to find someone to talk with these about. Frank Marini, who prowls around here, has kept several as well.
Yours looks nice and fat. I bet if we could get some vitamins in him his colours would POP. Mine loves the coralline coloured substrate and red macros.
I was just about to finish up a page that was appropriate for this site that had pics and some videos of mine. I'll post a link up when I get it together here in a couple of minutes.
Tell me more about yours!
Have a nice sand bed so he can cover up in it.... many times you'll just see his head throughout the day.
He shouldn't move around too much unless he's hungry or ticked. Ours moves over to the feeding corner and stares at it when he's hungry. The pic shows him waiting for the PE mysis to rain down from the heavens....
What are you feeding yours?
Your voli, when he's an adult, will be able to slurp in that ghoul if he was so inclined. I was going to put mine in a bunch of different tanks but ended up deciding to give him his own 40g cube. He's too precious to risk, IMO.
I'm so excited to find someone to talk with these about. Frank Marini, who prowls around here, has kept several as well.
Yours looks nice and fat. I bet if we could get some vitamins in him his colours would POP. Mine loves the coralline coloured substrate and red macros.
I was just about to finish up a page that was appropriate for this site that had pics and some videos of mine. I'll post a link up when I get it together here in a couple of minutes.
Tell me more about yours!
luv4jjt
Member
Ya we couldn't find any info on them. I was getting nervouse that we wouldn't know how to care for him. He is such a goblin looking thing. I love looking at his face. He looks like he belongs in a horror movie. The name fits perfect. We named our HOB. After the Hob Goblin from i think it was spiderman. We are feeding him ghost shrimp at the moment till our LFS starts getting in the grass shrimp. Do you feed yours frozen mysis or live? I would love to convert him to frozen so i can give him healthier food but he ignores it so far. I will definatly keep an eye on the lion and him. I have lots of empty tanks and suplies if i ever have to set him up on his own. Our puffer leaves him alone but Hob does stick up his spines when Fido comes near him to get a piece of food floating by. But Fido doesn't seem to even notice he's there. Just wants the food.
cranberry
Active Member
The pics are just randomly in there, but you can pick out the ones after I started "adding" vitamins. I wish I had of kept a better log of that. I can't say that's what caused the brighter colours, could have been a number of unrelated things, but I've seen some great colour shifts in my fish lately.
Mine eats frozen PE mysis. Oh... here's the link. You can see how I feed him with the tube.
Bearded Ghoul.
I started with live ghosties and progressed to injured, to freshly killed, to frozen and thawed and then mixed them with some PE mysis. Right after that he went for the PE by themselves. He's deathly afraid of the feeding stick.
He'll hunker down or run away verses having intentions of impaling anyone. Because of their mannerisms the odds of getting "hit" are less likely than with many scorps. The rest are curious to an extent.... he is not. He wants as far away from me as possible unless I'm carrying the feeding tube. If yours show different behaviour than mine, I would love to hear about it.
Mine eats frozen PE mysis. Oh... here's the link. You can see how I feed him with the tube.
Bearded Ghoul.
I started with live ghosties and progressed to injured, to freshly killed, to frozen and thawed and then mixed them with some PE mysis. Right after that he went for the PE by themselves. He's deathly afraid of the feeding stick.
He'll hunker down or run away verses having intentions of impaling anyone. Because of their mannerisms the odds of getting "hit" are less likely than with many scorps. The rest are curious to an extent.... he is not. He wants as far away from me as possible unless I'm carrying the feeding tube. If yours show different behaviour than mine, I would love to hear about it.
fmarini
Member
Luv4jjt--Cranberry has alot of hands-on experience from her recent work w/ this species, and is full of great advice and observations
Heres what i got on bearded ghouls-- maybe you'll find this helpful.
Choridactylus multibarbarbus
Common name: bearded ghoul, Many-barbed stingfish,
Maximum size: up to 6” inches
Minimum tank size: 25 gallons
Even though there are a four choridacylus species, only C. mulitbarbarbus is ever seen at the pet store. These fish are found in the Red Sea, Persian Gulf, Pakistan, India, the gulf of Thailand, and the Philippines. Apparently a tasty fish, choridactylus is sold in Asian markets as either fresh or dried salted. However, most specimens collected for the hobby come from the Philippines, where the fish is found inhabiting sandy or muddy bottoms.
Commentary: This fish is downright ugly or “cool” depending on your affections for the weird and unusual. The species color ranges from solid golds, to mottled browns and grays, to those highly prized specimens that are covered in pinks, reds, and coralline algae-like patches. The fins are frequently a different color than the body, and this species always has a dark band on the base of its tail. The head is rounded and insect-like and the eyes are set wide apart. Dangling from the lower jaw are multiple tassels or fringes giving the “bearded” moniker. Bearded ghouls are a very neat addition to a species only tank full of slow moving scorpionfish. I found them hardy, tolerant of tankmates, and good eaters, as long as the live foods kept coming. They fed only on live ghost shrimp, and refused or ignored guppies. They clumsily crawl over rockwork, so be aware if you keep this species with loose corals or have tenuously stacked rocks. I also observed they spent a good portion of their waking hours digging and partially burying themselves, so a sandy substrate is recommended. Lastly, I’ll reemphasize the point about their sting; choridactylus have rigid dorsal spines that can deliver a very potent sting, far greater than you’d expect from a fish this size.
Captive care
In the home aquarium bearded ghouls make an interesting and downright weird addition to a species-only tank. The three keys to success with this subfamily are a) sandy substrate, b) live ghost shrimp and 3) no food competition.
In this regards, ensure your tank bottom is composed of a few inches of sand or a finely crushed substrate, as these fish spend a lot of time partially buried. It’s not uncommon to see only the exposed eyes and mouth of a seagoblin, or a half buried head of the stingfish.
Reeflife Sept/Oct09 issue-Keeping Stingfish-Marini
-=-=-=-=-=
BTW- as you see from Cranberry-- she was able to wean her ghoul over to prepared foods, so its certainly something i would strive for
Heres what i got on bearded ghouls-- maybe you'll find this helpful.
Choridactylus multibarbarbus
Common name: bearded ghoul, Many-barbed stingfish,
Maximum size: up to 6” inches
Minimum tank size: 25 gallons
Even though there are a four choridacylus species, only C. mulitbarbarbus is ever seen at the pet store. These fish are found in the Red Sea, Persian Gulf, Pakistan, India, the gulf of Thailand, and the Philippines. Apparently a tasty fish, choridactylus is sold in Asian markets as either fresh or dried salted. However, most specimens collected for the hobby come from the Philippines, where the fish is found inhabiting sandy or muddy bottoms.
Commentary: This fish is downright ugly or “cool” depending on your affections for the weird and unusual. The species color ranges from solid golds, to mottled browns and grays, to those highly prized specimens that are covered in pinks, reds, and coralline algae-like patches. The fins are frequently a different color than the body, and this species always has a dark band on the base of its tail. The head is rounded and insect-like and the eyes are set wide apart. Dangling from the lower jaw are multiple tassels or fringes giving the “bearded” moniker. Bearded ghouls are a very neat addition to a species only tank full of slow moving scorpionfish. I found them hardy, tolerant of tankmates, and good eaters, as long as the live foods kept coming. They fed only on live ghost shrimp, and refused or ignored guppies. They clumsily crawl over rockwork, so be aware if you keep this species with loose corals or have tenuously stacked rocks. I also observed they spent a good portion of their waking hours digging and partially burying themselves, so a sandy substrate is recommended. Lastly, I’ll reemphasize the point about their sting; choridactylus have rigid dorsal spines that can deliver a very potent sting, far greater than you’d expect from a fish this size.
Captive care
In the home aquarium bearded ghouls make an interesting and downright weird addition to a species-only tank. The three keys to success with this subfamily are a) sandy substrate, b) live ghost shrimp and 3) no food competition.
In this regards, ensure your tank bottom is composed of a few inches of sand or a finely crushed substrate, as these fish spend a lot of time partially buried. It’s not uncommon to see only the exposed eyes and mouth of a seagoblin, or a half buried head of the stingfish.
Reeflife Sept/Oct09 issue-Keeping Stingfish-Marini
-=-=-=-=-=
BTW- as you see from Cranberry-- she was able to wean her ghoul over to prepared foods, so its certainly something i would strive for
S
saxman
Guest
i'd just like to suggest that if you can find a copy of the Reeflife Sept/Oct09 issue, it's well worth getting for Frank's articles alone (besides stingfish, there's a nice one on ambon scorps).
i was quite upset to get the notice that the publishers are discontinuing the magazine. the articles were great (many of my fave authors), with a minimal amount of advertisements.
i was quite upset to get the notice that the publishers are discontinuing the magazine. the articles were great (many of my fave authors), with a minimal amount of advertisements.