Do we really know anything about ich?!

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mhayes462

Guest
I've read up on this a LOT. Supposedly, if your dt does not have ich AND your new fish was properly quarantined and treated, then there is no way ich can be present. Right? If your new fish gets ich in the dt, then the dt had ich. Right. Supposedly no fish is immune to ich. So if the fish in dt did not show ich, then how did the new fish get ich if said fish was in quarantine with copper treatment for 6 weeks? Here's the whole deal. In my dt I have two clowns, a banghaii cardinal, purple firefish, yellow watchman goby, and hoevens wrasse. None of which have ever shown signs of ich. The clowns and cardinal I've had for over a year, wrasse and ywg for 9 months and firefish for 3 months. I work at a fish store and had my eye on a powder blue tang. I watched one for over a week and never saw a spot on it. Took it home and put it in quarantine with copper just to be safe. Kept the copper at optimal levels with a test kit. It did wonderful and ate great. Never saw one spot on it. After 5 weeks I put it in dt. Now after about a month it has white spots. So my question now is. HOW?! If everything I've been told is true, then this fish pulled off a miracle and got ich from the air. I don't want to hear about ich magnets, because if all the facts are true, then ich has to be present to get it. Any ideas? I think we as a hobby just don't really know jack s$!t about this nuisance.
Mike Hayes
 
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abeandlulu

Guest
I do not know alot about ick. A lot of people will tell you to get the fish out and retreat the fish. I have a 265g tank. So if a fish has some white spots on it it is a big to do to catch him. I think there is a difference between ick and white spots. i have had fish with white spots and the cleaner shrimp cleans them up. Then I have have fish with ick. It looks like a kid with full blown chicken pocks and had been scratching them for days! This is just my oppinion but if the fish has a coupe white spots on him. If you have a cleaner shrimp let him do his job. make sure you have vit c and garlic soaked food. and it should be fine. but i am sure someone will have better advice that me.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Mike,
Ich is perhaps one of the most studied microorganisms in the fish hobby. Commercial aquarists have paid marine biologists to study this pest to see the lifecycles and the best ways to treat their fish so that they can get it all ready to sell.
To make sure your display tank doesn't have ich, you have to have it sit fallow for 76 days. Then add your treated fish. Cysts can last up to 76 days, even with copper treatment. If you wait longer than 76 days in quarantine, then the cysts begin their cycle and die because of the copper treatment in the water.
If you have waited your 76 days of a full initial cycle and 76 days of quarantine of your new fish with copper - then I am 99.9999% certain you will never see the development of ich in the system.
Do some more research and you will find this information.
Sorry to hear that your powder blue is sick. I wish it the best and keep us updated.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhayes462 http:///t/395369/do-we-really-know-anything-about-ich#post_3519733
I've read up on this a LOT. Supposedly, if your dt does not have ich AND your new fish was properly quarantined and treated, then there is no way ich can be present. Right? If your new fish gets ich in the dt, then the dt had ich. Right. Supposedly no fish is immune to ich. So if the fish in dt did not show ich, then how did the new fish get ich if said fish was in quarantine with copper treatment for 6 weeks? Here's the whole deal. In my dt I have two clowns, a banghaii cardinal, purple firefish, yellow watchman goby, and hoevens wrasse. None of which have ever shown signs of ich. The clowns and cardinal I've had for over a year, wrasse and ywg for 9 months and firefish for 3 months. I work at a fish store and had my eye on a powder blue tang. I watched one for over a week and never saw a spot on it. Took it home and put it in quarantine with copper just to be safe. Kept the copper at optimal levels with a test kit. It did wonderful and ate great. Never saw one spot on it. After 5 weeks I put it in dt. Now after about a month it has white spots. So my question now is. HOW?! If everything I've been told is true, then this fish pulled off a miracle and got ich from the air. I don't want to hear about ich magnets, because if all the facts are true, then ich has to be present to get it. Any ideas? I think we as a hobby just don't really know jack s$!t about this nuisance.
Mike Hayes
Hi,
Healthy fish can fight off the parasite, and it may appear that you don't have it in the DT. A new fish is stressed, and a stressed fish is susceptible to the parasite. Once ich gets a foot hold it multiplies like crazy and infects even the healthy fish by sheer numbers.
Ich can be introduced from anything wet that goes from one tank to the other that had fish in it...new live rock, new corals, new live sand, new macroalgae or a new fish. You found out that you had ich in your system when the new addition which was stressed got infected. The only way to be rid of it now is to have your tank go fishless for 8 weeks....remove your fish and treat them while leaving the DT empty. This is why so many others say quarantine EVERYTHING....not just new fish.
I personally never quarantined inverts, or corals, but I was warned I was taking a risk. I'm so sorry to here that after all your efforts to quarantine your new fish, you still have to deal with the dreaded parasite.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Ive personally never quarantined anything and so far only two clowns have ever gotten ich. I dunno. Maybe dumb luck.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
All I can say is that copper levels must remain exact at all times during the treatment. If it does not, then your fish could still carry ich. Also, are you sure what you are seeing is ich? Is the fish covered with the spots?
The fish in you DT may have developed a bit of immunity to the parasite making detection difficult or the presence of ich at its minimal until the parasite latched on to a susceptible fish host when the new fish was introduced. Just to let you know, copper will compromise a fish's immune system which make it a difficult drug to work with.
Whatever happened, the result is that you now do have ich in your DT. I would suggest using hyposalinity to treat going forward.
I will say that dormancy of ich in the DT is much touted these days, but many times the story is only half told. Dormancy may (or may not) occur under certain circumstances; such as the DT being at significantly lower temps. Outrageous dormancy (months) falls under this category of surviving in a dormant state in very low temps (such as 50deg). Otherwise, under normal circumstance, dormancy is rare. The normal life cycle of ich is a couple of weeks. Since there is dormancy suggested in some studies this variable can be a consideration in regards to infected DTs. Under conditions of adequate treatment, ich will not survive in a dormant state which is why treating fish for ich for weeks on end is unnecessary and even harmful on many levels.
You may want to consider performing hyposalinity in your DT since it may be that you have a resilient strain there. Is your tank FO, FOWLR, Reef?
 
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mhayes462

Guest
It's a reef. From what I've read, no fish is immune from ich. And it's only a matter of time before any fish falls victim. You would think that if my dt already had ich, it would have showed on the fish that have been in there for so long. Idk, nothing makes sense
Mike Hayes
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
There are a few fish that do have by nature immunity, such as mandarins. They have a protective slime coat that prevents ich from attaching. Likewise, there are other fish that are much more susceptible then others, such as tangs. Tangs do not have protective scales, so it is rather easy for them to get ich.
Impossible to know for sure what happened in your situation and having a reef tank makes it especially difficult.
 
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