S
scfatz
Guest
I realize that it's often one or the other...
Could someone explain the pros and cons of each however briefly?
Fatz
Could someone explain the pros and cons of each however briefly?
Fatz
deeze
Member
I have a bare bottom in my sump because it didn't seem to benefit. I have a fair amount in the display.
Now I just load my sump with LR and different types of sea grasses. Things don't get stirred up so bad when I tinker down there.
I never considered doing bare bottom on the display because that would look weird. Not to mention there are beneficial critters that like to live in it.
Now I just load my sump with LR and different types of sea grasses. Things don't get stirred up so bad when I tinker down there.
I never considered doing bare bottom on the display because that would look weird. Not to mention there are beneficial critters that like to live in it.
acrylic51
Active Member
Personally neither of the 2 for me.....I've tried BB and didn't like the look.......I prefer SSB........I don't buy into all the hype about needing a DSB for nitrification and denitrification, that people promote.....It's just not true......If you want a DSB it would seem more practical to me to run it in your fuge that way if it would take a turn for the worst you can isolate it from your main system, plus who wants to look at 3-6" of sand in their display? Personally I don't I want to see my corals and my fish
S
scfatz
Guest
I prefer SSB
Pardon my large set of ignorances.....what is SSB?
Pardon my large set of ignorances.....what is SSB?
spitfire
Member
Deep sand beds are an excellent choice for a refugium. They are a good housing for critters (small as they must be) and an excellent housing for the 3rd stage of biological denitrification. These bacteria remove nitrates from the water, which would otherwise only be done with water changes.
However, if these bacteria are disturbed, they will release cyanide, causing a universal extinction.
Bare bottoms are ugly and are totally useless. No one (unless the tank was sterile or an experiment or dealer's tank of some kind) in their right mind would ever have a bare bottom, anywhere. Have a 3'' deep sand in the main tank, and a 6'' deep bed in the sump/refugium.
LB
However, if these bacteria are disturbed, they will release cyanide, causing a universal extinction.
Bare bottoms are ugly and are totally useless. No one (unless the tank was sterile or an experiment or dealer's tank of some kind) in their right mind would ever have a bare bottom, anywhere. Have a 3'' deep sand in the main tank, and a 6'' deep bed in the sump/refugium.
LB
mikeyjer
Active Member
Originally Posted by Spitfire
Deep sand beds are an excellent choice for a refugium. They are a good housing for critters (small as they must be) and an excellent housing for the 3rd stage of biological denitrification. These bacteria remove nitrates from the water, which would otherwise only be done with water changes.
However, if these bacteria are disturbed, they will release cyanide, causing a universal extinction.
Bare bottoms are ugly and are totally useless. No one (unless the tank was sterile or an experiment or dealer's tank of some kind) in their right mind would ever have a bare bottom, anywhere. Have a 3'' deep sand in the main tank, and a 6'' deep bed in the sump/refugium.
LB
Never heard anything about releasing cyanide??? Where did you get that information? BB tank is an option, a lot of folks run it just fine!!! 6" of sandbed isn't really needed for denitrification process and I can prove it to you with my tank!!! Depending which part of my tank your looking at, it varies from 2-3" in depth. :happyfish
Deep sand beds are an excellent choice for a refugium. They are a good housing for critters (small as they must be) and an excellent housing for the 3rd stage of biological denitrification. These bacteria remove nitrates from the water, which would otherwise only be done with water changes.
However, if these bacteria are disturbed, they will release cyanide, causing a universal extinction.
Bare bottoms are ugly and are totally useless. No one (unless the tank was sterile or an experiment or dealer's tank of some kind) in their right mind would ever have a bare bottom, anywhere. Have a 3'' deep sand in the main tank, and a 6'' deep bed in the sump/refugium.
LB
Never heard anything about releasing cyanide??? Where did you get that information? BB tank is an option, a lot of folks run it just fine!!! 6" of sandbed isn't really needed for denitrification process and I can prove it to you with my tank!!! Depending which part of my tank your looking at, it varies from 2-3" in depth. :happyfish
spitfire
Member
Originally Posted by Mikeyjer
Never heard anything about releasing cyanide??? Where did you get that information? BB tank is an option, a lot of folks run it just fine!!! 6" of sandbed isn't really needed for denitrification process and I can prove it to you with my tank!!! Depending which part of my tank your looking at, it varies from 2-3" in depth. :happyfish
No, *Edit*An anaerobic environment is needed to support the 3rd bacterial strains in the nitrogen cycle. If disturbed they will release toxins. But they are important; they turn nitrate into nitrogen gas, which then leaves the water as bubbles. You need this type of bacteria for the 3rd stage.
For Christ's sakes, pick up a reef book and read it!
Never heard anything about releasing cyanide??? Where did you get that information? BB tank is an option, a lot of folks run it just fine!!! 6" of sandbed isn't really needed for denitrification process and I can prove it to you with my tank!!! Depending which part of my tank your looking at, it varies from 2-3" in depth. :happyfish
No, *Edit*An anaerobic environment is needed to support the 3rd bacterial strains in the nitrogen cycle. If disturbed they will release toxins. But they are important; they turn nitrate into nitrogen gas, which then leaves the water as bubbles. You need this type of bacteria for the 3rd stage.
For Christ's sakes, pick up a reef book and read it!
viper_930
Active Member
Anoxic bacteria use the oxygen from the NO3 and release the nitrogen gas as bubbles like you mentioned.
BB is beneficial to keep nutrient levels extra low if used in conjunction with a whole lot of flow and a big skimmer utilizing wet skimming. Every bare bottom tank I have seen is an SPS-dominated tank. I don't see a good use for other corals.
Nitrates are not only removed by anoxic bacteria and water changes, but also by corals and algea.
FWIW, I'm in the process of settin up another tank and will be going BB. My current tank has a plenum under 4" of sand.
BB is beneficial to keep nutrient levels extra low if used in conjunction with a whole lot of flow and a big skimmer utilizing wet skimming. Every bare bottom tank I have seen is an SPS-dominated tank. I don't see a good use for other corals.
Nitrates are not only removed by anoxic bacteria and water changes, but also by corals and algea.
FWIW, I'm in the process of settin up another tank and will be going BB. My current tank has a plenum under 4" of sand.
mikeyjer
Active Member
Originally Posted by Spitfire
No, *Edit*An anaerobic environment is needed to support the 3rd bacterial strains in the nitrogen cycle. If disturbed they will release toxins. But they are important; they turn nitrate into nitrogen gas, which then leaves the water as bubbles. You need this type of bacteria for the 3rd stage.
For Christ's sakes, pick up a reef book and read it!
I know about the anerobic bacteria, but it doesn't release cyanide!!! No need to pick up a book to read if I can see it in my tank with sandbed less then 6" I have nitrogen gas coming up from my sandbed. It's a debateable subject, if you go search in the forum you will see what I mean. Your live rock does some part in removing nitrate as well. My nitrate is undetectible in my tank for a long time now and with constant nitrogen gas coming out from the sandbed. I'm saying this from my experience and I don't need a book to prove me wrong what so ever, like I've said it's a debateable subject, learn it from experience, books don't tell you everything!!!! :happyfish
No, *Edit*An anaerobic environment is needed to support the 3rd bacterial strains in the nitrogen cycle. If disturbed they will release toxins. But they are important; they turn nitrate into nitrogen gas, which then leaves the water as bubbles. You need this type of bacteria for the 3rd stage.
For Christ's sakes, pick up a reef book and read it!
I know about the anerobic bacteria, but it doesn't release cyanide!!! No need to pick up a book to read if I can see it in my tank with sandbed less then 6" I have nitrogen gas coming up from my sandbed. It's a debateable subject, if you go search in the forum you will see what I mean. Your live rock does some part in removing nitrate as well. My nitrate is undetectible in my tank for a long time now and with constant nitrogen gas coming out from the sandbed. I'm saying this from my experience and I don't need a book to prove me wrong what so ever, like I've said it's a debateable subject, learn it from experience, books don't tell you everything!!!! :happyfish
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally Posted by ViPeR_930
Anoxic bacteria use the oxygen from the NO3 and release the nitrogen gas as bubbles like you mentioned.
BB is beneficial to keep nutrient levels extra low if used in conjunction with a whole lot of flow and a big skimmer utilizing wet skimming. Every bare bottom tank I have seen is an SPS-dominated tank. I don't see a good use for other corals.
Nitrates are not only removed by anoxic bacteria and water changes, but also by corals and algea.
FWIW, I'm in the process of settin up another tank and will be going BB. My current tank has a plenum under 4" of sand.
BB
Anoxic bacteria use the oxygen from the NO3 and release the nitrogen gas as bubbles like you mentioned.
BB is beneficial to keep nutrient levels extra low if used in conjunction with a whole lot of flow and a big skimmer utilizing wet skimming. Every bare bottom tank I have seen is an SPS-dominated tank. I don't see a good use for other corals.
Nitrates are not only removed by anoxic bacteria and water changes, but also by corals and algea.
FWIW, I'm in the process of settin up another tank and will be going BB. My current tank has a plenum under 4" of sand.
BB
S
scfatz
Guest
Every bare bottom tank I have seen is an SPS-dominated tank
Can somone clarify what SPS means?
So its believed that a DSB helps convert nitrate into gas allowing it to leave as gas.
In the absence of sand,a big protien skimmer is a must.
That about right?
Can somone clarify what SPS means?
So its believed that a DSB helps convert nitrate into gas allowing it to leave as gas.
In the absence of sand,a big protien skimmer is a must.
That about right?
mikeyjer
Active Member
Originally Posted by SCFatz
Can somone clarify what SPS means?
So its believed that a DSB helps convert nitrate into gas allowing it to leave as gas.
In the absence of sand,a big protien skimmer is a must.
That about right?
SPS = Small Polyp Stony
And yes that is right....
Can somone clarify what SPS means?
So its believed that a DSB helps convert nitrate into gas allowing it to leave as gas.
In the absence of sand,a big protien skimmer is a must.
That about right?
SPS = Small Polyp Stony
And yes that is right....
zanoshanox
Active Member
I prefer and medium sandbed....And its pretty hard to take any tank seriously when ti has no substrate...just looks tacky. I think 2-3 inches looks nice.
murph
Active Member
The conventional "expert" advice on sand bed depth is less than an inch or over 3 and a half. The logic being that anything in between will not provide a no oxygen region at the lower depths and the bed becomes more of a nutrient sink than anything else.
From my own systems, monitoring others and info from other hobbyist locally this advice seems to hold up.
From my own systems, monitoring others and info from other hobbyist locally this advice seems to hold up.
mikeyjer
Active Member
Originally Posted by Murph
The conventional "expert" advice on sand bed depth is less than an inch or over 3 and a half. The logic being that anything in between will not provide a no oxygen region at the lower depths and the bed becomes more of a nutrient sink than anything else.
From my own systems, monitoring others and info from other hobbyist locally this advice seems to hold up.
Then I guess you need to come to observe my tank and see for yourself. I held the local reef club meeting last month, there's a few that comes in this forum, maybe I need to get them to verify this on here since they have seen my tank with nitrogen bubbles. :happyfish
The conventional "expert" advice on sand bed depth is less than an inch or over 3 and a half. The logic being that anything in between will not provide a no oxygen region at the lower depths and the bed becomes more of a nutrient sink than anything else.
From my own systems, monitoring others and info from other hobbyist locally this advice seems to hold up.
Then I guess you need to come to observe my tank and see for yourself. I held the local reef club meeting last month, there's a few that comes in this forum, maybe I need to get them to verify this on here since they have seen my tank with nitrogen bubbles. :happyfish
acrylic51
Active Member
Originally Posted by Mikeyjer
Then I guess you need to come to observe my tank and see for yourself. I held the local reef club meeting last month, there's a few that comes in this forum, maybe I need to get them to verify this on here since they have seen my tank with nitrogen bubbles. :happyfish
Take it easy!!!!!! To each his own.....You like DSB that's cool, but as stated earlier, this is a very debateable topic........I'm not doubting what your stating about your sandbed, and again let me repeat I'm not a fan of BB, and do prefer some covering, but the theory of "MUST" have a DSB is pointless it's just not so..........My thought or idea is who the heck wants to look at a heap or pile of sand in the DT??? surely not I......most people would prefer to have it in the fuge, out of sight, but doing the same function, and if, and when it does go wrong with the DSB, you can isolate it from your DT..........
Yes SPS tanks are predominantly BB, but they are alot harder to keep and it just proves you don't need a sand bed......maybe some of you need to check out Steve Wests' site on his setup and he'll explain some stuff, and he'll even state he removes portions of his sandbed over the course of the year and replaces it......And again when you look at his tank it will speak for itself.......Haven't seen any tanks on this site to put up against his so far.........
Then I guess you need to come to observe my tank and see for yourself. I held the local reef club meeting last month, there's a few that comes in this forum, maybe I need to get them to verify this on here since they have seen my tank with nitrogen bubbles. :happyfish
Take it easy!!!!!! To each his own.....You like DSB that's cool, but as stated earlier, this is a very debateable topic........I'm not doubting what your stating about your sandbed, and again let me repeat I'm not a fan of BB, and do prefer some covering, but the theory of "MUST" have a DSB is pointless it's just not so..........My thought or idea is who the heck wants to look at a heap or pile of sand in the DT??? surely not I......most people would prefer to have it in the fuge, out of sight, but doing the same function, and if, and when it does go wrong with the DSB, you can isolate it from your DT..........
Yes SPS tanks are predominantly BB, but they are alot harder to keep and it just proves you don't need a sand bed......maybe some of you need to check out Steve Wests' site on his setup and he'll explain some stuff, and he'll even state he removes portions of his sandbed over the course of the year and replaces it......And again when you look at his tank it will speak for itself.......Haven't seen any tanks on this site to put up against his so far.........
