dwarf lions

m-barbour

Member
im gonna set up a 30 gallon dwarf lion tank with just him in the tank. I was wondering what sand sifters or cleaners i could put with the lion. other then turbos and bigger snails i will get what would you put with it. somethin like a diamond goby? sand sifting cucumber? fighting conch? any other suggestions?
 
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saxman

Guest
I'd be careful about adding too many Turbos to a 30 gal. They get big and are super clumsy. I'd only add one to a 30 gal and only then if I have a HA problem.
You can keep any type of snails or even hermits (I recommend scarlet reef hermits) as a CUC in a lionfish setup. What you can't have are any ornamental shrimp, as the lion will indeed make a snack of them.
If you want something that stirs the sand, go with a few Nassarius and Cerith snails.
We typically use a mix of scarlet hermits (no more than 3 in a 30 gal), Astrea (1 per 3 gals), Nerite
(1 per 3 gals), Trocus (1 per 3 gals), Nassarius (1 per 10 gals) in our lion and scorp setups.
"Sifters" like cukes (they get pretty large) and sifting gobies will deplete your sandbed of beneficial microfauna (why do you think they sift?) and unless they have an alternate food source, will starve. Sifting gobies are also known for throwing sand all over your tank. Additionally, a nice cigar-shaped fish would look pretty tasty to a lion, even a dwarf, depending on size differential.
I highly recommend going with a dwarf fuzzy (Dendrochirus brachypterus
) as your first lion. They're "personable", pretty, and are one of the easier-to-wean species. They also spend much of their time out and about...much more than the other dwarf species, IME.
 

m-barbour

Member
Thank you for the very informative response..I was looking at a fuzzy..it'll def be pushing it but what do u think about a fuzzy and a zebra with 40+ pounds of live rock a fliter and a skimmer if they are the only two things in there other then CUC? I've kept volitans in larger tanks so I know about feeding and bioload just curious about this setup
 
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saxman

Guest
Yeppers...bioload and space. One of the best ways to mitigate aggression is for each fish to feel like it has a few "bolt holes" whether they use them or not. IME, the fish tend to NOT use them when they feel comfy enuff, but it's "knowing that they have a place to hide" that makes them hang out in the open more.
 

drewsbrews

Member
I just picked up a Fuzzy Saturday. It has been a very inquisitive fish from the getgo slowly inspecting the tank bottom, using the bottom of it's fins to scoot around on the substrate and rocks. He didn't seem afraid of me, just a little freaked out from the whole ordeal. Today was the first time I've seen him eat, but hasn't yet grabbed anything out of the water. Sofar he has been just searching around on the ground, and when he sees something tasty he goes vertical splaying his fins out and strikes, accepting both frozen mysis and brine.
Now that he's got some food in his belly he's started swimming around alot more.. At the side of the tank I'm sitting near. I think he is trying to get my attention lol
The tank is only a spare 15 I had with a 10gal sump. But that's plenty for him right now.. Being all of 2.5"-3". If he starts getting too big I'd hapily swap out for a bigger tank. I just happened to get this one for free.
 
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saxman

Guest
Cool...it sounds like your fuzzy is on its way to being the typical "little aquatic puppy that you can't pet". Some specimens will even spit water at you to get your attention, but DO cover your tank, as fuzzies are bad about jumping.
It's fine to use grow-out tanx for small fish, in fact, we find it makes weaning them easier. I'd plan on at least a 30 gal for your new charge.
 

drewsbrews

Member
Yep I'd say he's definately learned the begging technique. 90% of the time he's at the corner I'm sitting near where my desk is. Then when I look over at him he swims to the top and waits lol. Good to know about the jumper tendancy, this tank is using a "freshwater" style hood since it's only fish and inverts. The sump seems to mix enough o2.
 

drewsbrews

Member
How goes the plan m-barbour?
This little lion has me enthralled! In the past couple days it has moved over to silverside chunks once per day. Much cleaner for the tank since some of the mysisbrine would get lost and uneaten, also it fills the belly quicker so I'm not standing over the tank for 10min slowly pouring enough in waiting for it to go through it's feeding ritual. Today it's taken the food from my fingers when dangled in the water. Neat, but I think it prefers me to drop the food in so it can "chase" the food to the bottom. that get's the dorsal fin twitching eheh.
I picked up a 30gal oceanic cube and stand so I could have plenty of time setting up the replacement. The deal came with a 150watt sunpod which is total overkill for a fish lol maybe it will do well to grow some macro. I wasn't too keen on the 15gal setup anyway; I only had a metal stand so the sump is currently out in the open.
 
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saxman

Guest
Great news!
Now that you have your fish on silversides, you can begin mixing in other foods such as raw table shrimp, SW fish flesh (tuna, salmon, cod, snapper, etc.), lobster (you can often find petite tails for $5), scallops, squid, etc. Be sure to keep the chunk size manageable (a bit smaller is better than a bit larger).
Also, you'll want to back off on your feedings a bit. We feed our Scorpaeniformes 3x a week (M-W-F). Feed until you see a nice little "belly bulge", but don't feed the fish to satiation. This will help prevent hepatic lipidosis. Lions are binge/fast preds preferring to eat and digest before hunting again, and this matches their natural feeding habits more closely. However, lions will eat pretty much anytime you offer them food, so they always SEEM hungry.
Since your lion can see you at your desk, it may even learn to spit water at you to see if you'll feed it...they're worse than little dogs when it comes to begging.
 

drewsbrews

Member
I had thought most hepatic lipidosis was associated with nutrient deficiencies? but I'll do my best to change the feeding schedule. It's tough with those big pouty eyes ;)
 
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saxman

Guest
Hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver degeneration) is typically caused from overfeeding and/or feeding the wrong foods (those containing excess or the wrong fatty acids).
Trust me...I know all about the "pouty eyes". In our QT/grow-out setups, we have a pair of red juvie fuzzies (actually one red and one maroon), the red fish was getting impatient with me, and I watched it learn to spit water. I think we've had 3 fuzzies that spit water over the years. The other lions in that room (bluefin, radiata, and an antennata) just plaster their faces against the tank panes and try to get my attention by "fluttering" around.
 
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saxman

Guest
IME, captive specimens typically reach about 75% of their wild max size. The fish typically hit sexual maturity somewhere around 9 months, give or take, and generally max out between 1 and 2 years, depending on species and feeding.
Lifespan of most lionfish is generally quite a few years, for instance a well-kept P. volitans might live 25 years or so in captivity.
One word of caution about fuzzies: they jump, and they jump well! I'd definitely cover the tank somehow.
 

drewsbrews

Member
Not sure if the estimated max sizes on the aquarium sites are listing wild or captive figures (roughly 6-8"). Just have to wait and see I suppose. Thanks for the info!
Right now the 15 is covered with a standard hood, freshwater style. I can cover any of the unnecessary holes and put a weight on the lid. The cube has a glass top with an uncut back section.
 
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saxman

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewsBrews http:///forum/thread/385117/dwarf-lions#post_3394846
Not sure if the estimated max sizes on the aquarium sites are listing wild or captive figures (roughly 6-8"). Just have to wait and see I suppose. Thanks for the info!
The sizes most folks quote are the WC max sizes from Fish Base.
 

albermartin

New Member
As well as i know about the aggressive type of fish then i know about the blood parrot.The really warrior.You always have to keep a separate tank for this fish other wise this may cause harm other fish too.
 
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saxman

Guest
I'm not sure what a FW hybrid cichlid has to do with lionfish, but OK...
 
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