Dying snails and ID for purple fuzzy thing

apos

Member
While trying to grab a dead snail (more on that later, need advice if anyone has any), I had to move and turn over some LR and found this purple thing on the bottom. The picture isn't the best, since I have no macro lens atm. It's basically about the size of a small grape, and the base looks like coraline purple, but then there are all these pointy white protrusions coming out of it. They do not move: they are rigid, almost looking like tiny urchin spines, only more hairlike densitywise. There are a couple more places where the purple "pimples" are growing, but these do not have the same white spikes.

My LR also has grown thin white "trees" on it over time: they are too thin to picture well (always out of focus), but they are unlike this purple thing in that they have no obvious base, and are branching like a tree rather than single spikes like the picture. I've heard people ask about things like this before, but never getting an answer that fit (don't seem like worms medusas since they don't move: they look plantlike)
As for my snails, I've lost a chestnut (stopped moving or coming out of its shell and hermits eventually took a bite), a large margarita (didn't smell yet, but stopped moving for days and was half in, half out of shell with door open, did not respond to touch, etc.) and now a small margarita and an orange chestnut have shown the same symptoms, though both moved a little more recently when I moved them underwater to look at their bottoms. When I can see their feet, they are browner than normal and more wrinkled.
I have one last orange chestnut that seems okay (species is turban I think), two more marg (one happily gumming away on my LR, one I haven't seen in a day, but was fine last time I saw and is likely on the LR somewhere, they blend in pretty well), one very large zebra turbo snail (seems happy, pauses periodically and is still stuck to glass now), and one astrea (seems happily eating the algae film on my pvc return pipes). My clownfish and emerald crab seem happy and moving around as normal, and my hermits seem fine. My nar snails only come out at feeding time, but there was one that was resting on the glass that looked sort of odd, though it could have been that he was just covered in crud. It's possible that some have died and I can't tell (if they died under the substrate)
Two day old shot of the Zebra turbo, the now deceased marg and the still happy orange snail pictured below (shell of the now not moving one is peeking out there too):

Anyone have any suggestions?
My nitrate is fairly high: around 30ppm, and I figure that this is my best bet as to the problem I'm having. I've done two 10 gal changes in the last week (tank is a 55gal), but they don't seem to have gone down too much, and the tank has been running at around 20ppm-30ppm for a while now (about a month so far). I've checked my calcium and it seems right for snails (I use the Instant Ocean brand, which seems to get most everything right just in the mix). All other parameters are normal: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, alk and ph in the range, temperature at around 76. I have lots of LR, hitchhiking feather worms, and a crushed coral bed tats popping with pods and hair worms (there's one piece of LR with a hair or spaghetti worm that has a tentacle or two that's literally a foot long).
I use amquel+ treated tap water, unfortunately, so it's possible that I could have some sort of toxin that's making it through. I'm still trying to convince my SO to let me buy a RO/DI. However, this tank was run on treated tap water for years (in the same water district/city, cleveland) by its previous owner, so while that may be an easy excuse, I'm not sure I buy it. I'm pretty sure that copper meds were never used in this tank and it was always a reef tank...
 

apos

Member
For a new 55gal, I'm not convinced that's it. In total, I had 3 margs, 1 astrea, 3 orange, and 1 big zebra (not counting the nars, which eat very different things and in very different places). They were also added gradually rather than all at once: a few each week or so over the course of a month and a week. Considering the huge "clean up crew" packages many places sell, I'm way under even that inflated level. They all seemed to have plenty to eat, and more, and spent lots of time eating until they keeled over. I have a fair number of diatom piles on my substrate, plenty of algae film and bits of hair algae (though none of it overgrowing: all just budding). So I'm just not sure that's it.
I could try to spot or otherwise feed them, but how? Will these detrivore species eat nori? And if so, what's the best way to get it to them?
But it really seems more like something in my chemistry might be out of whack. I've thought of copper (if something is wrong with my pipes), but I don't have a test for it to check.
 

apos

Member
One more marg dead for sure, but the other orange has started moving again.
No one has seen the purple thing before? It's so weird looking...
 

rbrockm1

Active Member
if they are eating and dying then there has to be something in your water. are your fish dying or is it just the snails?
 

apos

Member
Only the snails, and not even all the snails (though if things continue, even healthy ones could get bad at any time). Two smaller margs and one astrea are quite happy and moving around briskly as usual. Clownfish is fine and all crabs seem fine. Nar snails seem mostly fine too.
The larger zebra seems to have slowed down (though not stopped or dropped off the rock). :(
 

apos

Member
One more bump to see if anyone can at least help with the ID. This thing is still on the rock, still hairy, and maybe slightly bigger. Could it be some sort of sponge?
 

apos

Member
If it's a coral I would imagine it would be starving to death, since I don't have any corals and don't feed for them. Are there corals with "hair" like this thing has? I really haven't done much research on corals since I don't expect to start adding any until farther down the road in tank stability.
 

darric

New Member
The fuzzy thing is a "Tree Foram", they look cool and are completely harmless they will filter feed and may become food for some fish.
The margarita snails are from the rocky intertidal region on the North American Pacific coast and are used to being in cooler water. The water temperature thing also goes for snails from the Mexico region (your turbo and orange turbo). Temperature is not a definite reason for you since your tank is at 76 degrees (As compared to an 81 degree reef tank). Another reason could be salinity. Snails have complex circulatory systems that require acclamation to changes in salinity (not happy to go from one tank directly to another with a different salinity). The last reason I have for you, is being overstocked with snails. Snails need a large supply of algal food to survive, and while your tank may or may not have plenty, the tanks that most dealers have for snails are severely overstocked. The snails you have, may have been starving for a while before entering your tank. Just some ideas for you. Hope at least some helps!
 

ophiura

Active Member
Have you tried a polyfilter? From your description I am still concerned about some sort of heavy metal issue (copper being number one). Do you have copper pipes, or any metal fittings (eg brass) in the tank? I would get a test on copper, just to be sure. Most LFS can run one.
 

apos

Member
I don't have anything copper in the tank, but my household pipes are old (house is from the 50s). However, any leeching would be bad for more than just my fish!
Just how cold do turbos need things? I thought I was already getting chilly at 76, and was worried about how I was going to slowly heat things up if I ever wanted to add more reef critters.
I've tried to keep my salinity pretty stable and in the snail range: most of the snails got 3hr drip acclimations, and didn't have any problems for weeks after introduction, so I doubt I oz-shocked them at least then. It's possible that my salt has fluctuated since then without me noticing it: I've taken measurements with my hydrometer every other day, sometimes everyday, and tried not to add evap wter back in all at once, or let it evap too far all at once.
I know I need to get a refractometer asap, but I'm fresh out of cash for the moment (I need a better skimmer, an RO/DI, and a refrac all, but my job is crap, holiday gave us a financial beating, and taxes are coming up)
 

apos

Member
That's neat if its some sort of sponge: I really like sponges biologically (with so few cell types, and so little structure to them, they're like right on the cusp of single vs. multicelluarity). I don't see much from looking at demosponge pictures that match what I see in my tank, but there are so many different species...
I'll try a polyfilter just in case. I'd never heard of them before. Some websites say that they remove nitrates, which has me a bit skeptical (if so, why wouldn't everyone use them to deal with a nitrate spike??)
 

darric

New Member
How many snails did you have altogether? How many now? How long did it take for them to die?
 

apos

Member
The most I ever had was:
4 marg, 3 orange chesnut, 1 astrea, 1 large turbo. I briefly had two cerith, but I think I didn't acclimate them properly, as they had problems holding onto LR and then fell over and stopped moving after a few days. I had and have lots of algae film on my glass/LR, and diatoms on my substrate. What you say about starving in the LFS could be true, but I would think being taken from an environment where they had like 80 snails in one 20gal tank with little LR to a 55gal with lots of LR would have improved life for them, especially since they seemed happy and active for weeks after I first got them acclimated.
I also have added 6 narsarius snails, all of which seem to be doing fine (though I don't see them all at once: a bunch burst out at feeding time mostly) except for one I saw on my glass once that seemed sort of extra goopy underneath.
I now have: 2 tiny marg, 1 astrea, 1 large turbo (who seems to have perked back up recently and is going gangbusters again) and 2 orange turbos, one of which is very sickly (was holding onto glass and still moving a bit recently in its shell, but not traveling anywhere) and the other which seems as mobile as ever. The astrea never showed any signs of sickness which given what you are saying does seem to suggest that temperature could be part of the issue. I have no coral, just a clownfish and a crab and lots of LR and critters. Would I do well to slowly lower my temp down to 74 or so? Just how cold do turbos like it and how low can everything else tolerate?
 

darric

New Member
I wouldn't lower the temperature any. There is no way to tell for sure where the snails were collected from or what temperature they were aqua cultured at. I would get a copper test kit (because you are using tap water), but leave things as they are. Snails are generally abused before you get them, sometimes with hundreds in a tank sized for only a few snails. So the snail could have been half starved when you got them, and you can't tell by looking at them. The salinity changes from evaporation/replenishment shouldn't be enough to kill them. Not sure that's the answer you are looking for.
 

apos

Member
I'm happy for any advice I can get. People can't have all the answers, but voices of experience help!
I'm just leaning against the starvation/LFS abuse theory because they did so well and so happily for weeks before crapping out: you'd think that a snail sick from the start would feel worse in a new tank and then just get worse and worse, rather than brightening up for weeks before getting sick and dying suddenly.
I'll definately try to find out if copper is to blame (darn, I really need to get on RO/DI so I can rule water quality out in such cases!).
 
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