Eating Live sea urchins

[rlablan]

I just read a whole article explaining the ins and outs of sea urchins. I have one and they are amazing creatures. I think all animals are amazing and great things given to us to appreciate and yes, in some cases, eat them. There are so many great actions performed by animals on this earth it is ridiculous. They are what really keeps this planet going, with no help from us. This leads me to my next point...
I am looking into getting a tuxedo urchin for my reef tank and looked on you tube about them. The only videos that I could really find..."eating live sea urchin."
I watched about 20 seconds of this, before my insides started to squirm and my heart started to break. I saw people picking urchins off of the coast at the beach, and cutting them open with scissors!!! What the heck?!?! Isn't someone stopping this?? There were MANY videos out there of people talking about eating urchins. ALIVE! That is a horrible horrible thing. There were comments there about people saying "I have eaten them at fish markets. It is a nice effect to use the urchin as a bowl and see the spines moving around while you eat him." WHAT THE HELL KIND OF NONSENSE IS THAT? I after reading many comments like this, I did not see one person as saying this was inhumane or a terrible or cruel.
Urchins are terribly misunderstood, and their species as a whole is a truly great and wonderful thing. They do many things for out oceans and planets as a whole that I never know about. They are one of the things that actually keep our coral reefs thriving, though most people believe them to not be reef safe. I think the real things that are not reef safe, a ignorant guys in bright green polo t-shirts, with douche bag hair cuts.
I hope that if reincarnation does exist, that guy comes back as an urchin, and an urchin comes back as a human, and cuts his head off, and watches him squirm. What a jerk. I am not against eating meat, or sea food, or anything like that, but I am against cruelty to animals, especially when you pull them out of their environment for a snack at the beach.
What would this guy think if I walked into his house, took the leg off of his dog, and then began to eat it, and watch it squirm. If I WERE going to do that, I would have the decency to shoot it in the head first. (Not that I would ever shoot a dog, don't misunderstand me.)
People like this ought to be ashamed. Where is your mother. If that were my kid, I would do some bad things that would probably get me some jail time.
the video that caused the uproar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Kkb...eature=related
A great article for an marine aquarist:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rs/index.php

 

[jackri]

How is that different from natives where giant clams live to go dive for them, smash them with a rock and eat them? We see them as ornamental, they see them as food.
I'm sure the bad haircut guy could find something wrong with the way you live as well. Do I agree with it? Eh, eating urchins wouldn't be my thing but nothing wrong with a raw oyester on the half shell with some tabassco sauce.
It's all on perspective and if it isn't illegal why condemn someone for it?
A coworker says to me tonight... "so you have fish, but you go fishing and eat them"
Yes I do.. and I see nothing wrong with it either.

 

[rlablan]

but you're not eating them alive. It that that I have a problem with. I think it's crappy. Again, if someone had to eat something, atleast kill it first. I think it's a mean thing to say "oh I like to watch it squirm." you're causing it pain and thinking that it's fun. That is a messed up way of thinking. I am sure that it breaks your heart to see your daughter in pain when she scraps her knee? You would never think that was a source of pleasure to see that happen. No one would, but when it's a animal, It's "cool" or "a nice effect".
There is something to be said for a whole generation of people my age who think that pain in lesser (what they think are lesser than they are) beings is cool. I don't know if it was too much TV, or sugar, or bad parenting, maybe a mix?? I don't know but I think it's a trend that is all too common and it's pretty messed up.
Also, causing pain in animals and using it for a source of "cool factor" or entertainment is said to be a trait commonly found in serial killers. That is something I see more and more these days amongst my peers between the age of about 20-28 or so.
There is something strange going on with that.
Like I said before as well. I am not against eating meat, I don't drive a prius, and I have been fishing myself. I just think it's not cool to eat an animal alive. He could have the decency to kill it first. Put it out of it's misery.

 

[jackri]

Yeah I tend to agree with you there.
I like to go hunting... but to walk up on an animal still alive and needing to put it down up close and personal... not something I really have the stomach for anymore but it has to be done at that point.
I've found myself not much of a hunter anymore and do a lot of catch and release. Theres something about that helpless feeling I don't care to see or be a part of.

 

[rlablan]

That is exactly my point of this rant. The majority of us think that seeing something in pain is a terrible situation and would feel even worse if we knew that we were the source of the pain.
If you were the one in this situation, or like your hunting experience, you said you couldn't stomach it. Most of us could not. This is because of something we all encountered in our lives, most likely early on. Through mediums like parenting, church, school, relationships, "stove top" learning, and (in the case of "conscience and guilt", supposedly,) genetics. You were most likely taught, as a child, that pain is not a good thing.
If any of us can remember back this far... This is a familiar scenario. When a child hits another child and the authority figure says "don't do that, that's mean." A child who is experiencing this situation for the first time would say "Why is that bad?" and the teacher or parent explains like this (Or I always did, being a nanny for many children) "Have you ever been hit? Did you like it? Well, if you didn't like it, why do it to someone else?" And the child comprehends that this is then a bad thing and through their own past pain, they learn not to do that to someone else.
It's the golden rule and it's not tossed around enough. That guy wouldn't like someone doing that to him or his dog, or child or whatever... why do that to someone, or something else?

 

[jackri]

Lots of stupid/crazy people out there though. Watch the news... scares me I have a young daughter.
The guy that kidnapped the girl for 18 years... yeah I could enjoy seeing him in pain.

 

[rlablan]

I have not heard this story? What happened there? Was this a recent thing?
I really try not to watch news. Only big events. If it makes it onto CNN, then Ill hear about it. local news makes you stupid and paranoid, MTV news, do I even have to say it? I think alot of media is just garbage and propganda but I do watch trials and things like that. Just so I am in the know. Political news is really all I really keep up with because then I feel educated and I feel I can vote properly because I have kept up and what not.

 

[jackri]

You seriously haven't heard about this? It's national headline news. Guy kidnapped an 11 year old 18 years ago and they just found her -- with 2 kids by this guy. Both are girls who are 11 and 14. Just a totally sick guy all the way around --- and he has a wife/girlfriend who was in on it too.

 

[aquaknight]

From my very brief understand of Echinoidea(urchins/sand dollars) nervous systems, it's nearly completely inaccurate to equal the pain a human might fell, to what a urchin does (or in actuality, doesn't). They're are just basic input sensors, 'I'm on a rock,' 'this stuff I'm eating is algae,' etc. Not the vast complex of receptors humans have, that allow us to feel pain.
While it many look pretty gruesome, cutting the mouth off an urchin, and watching it squirm (try to get away), relating to sawing the leg off a dog, isn't remotely comparable. It would be better to say, I'm going over to his house, and cutting down his tree.
I'm not saying this makes it right/wrong, just we need a better understanding.

 

[rlablan]

Jackri- I just read about it, and that is some really really scary stuff. Like... I think I might have nightmares. I told you, I really don't watch news. I haven't really been watching lately. This is the stuff that keeps me up at night, so I try not to watch, but I can't believe this one got past me :0/ That is enough to make me not have kids, just to not have to go through something like that. eessshhhh.
Aquaknight- I suppose that is good to know. It makes me feel a bit better about it. But I still think that animal probably has some sort of pain sensory. maybe it isn't as complex, sure. But I think there may be something there? If they can sense touching, and things on them or around, I would think they could feel something like getting cut in half.
I also think it's the principle of the whole thing too. This guy basically has no empathy for this animal. It's just a snack. It's not bettering anything except his belly and it doesn't seem to mean anything to him. It seems his attitude in the video and his comments about it are completely apathetic to this animal.
I suppose that is probably the thing that bugs me, is not that he's eating, not that he's even eating an animal, but that he is just so careless about it and that he planned this out by taking scissors to the beach. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the info AK, I do appreciate you bringing that to my attention.

 

[jackri]

Yeah his attitude is probably wrong.. but not much different than taking a screwdriver to open up oyesters or a hammer to clams.
Yeah that story REALLY bothers me. I'd probably end up in jail for killing him.

 

[rlablan]

Yeah, seriously, no one could blame those people for ripping that guy a new one...
I could see how that would bother you. The danger is much more prevalent because you actually have children where as I do not. But it still worries me alot. I still can't believe the neighbors let him get away with it. If that were going on next to me they would never have gotten away with that. Especially with that see through fence!!! I am super noisy and I would have known that was going on within days. If that guy doesn't get life in prison, I am officially giving up on the justice system here.

 

[rlablan]

It really isn't different. I just brought this up because I say it was disgusted.I mean the guy was a jerk. What does someone get from being that way, I mean... What girl would want that guy? He just seems like a big... "rooster."
i didn't actually know oysters and clams. Natives I think are a bit different. They are eating to survive. Not with malicious intent, like this kid. Also, these people probably don't even know anything about anything. If they are" natives" like I am thinking.. they are people like native fijians who just eat to eat and don't know any better. they can't afford farmed animals or livestock like that. They fish for food and eat it. But I think they kill the fish before a taking a bite out. They also don't have good education or internet or anything to learn about these things. I don't think they have the luxury of knowing about "Pain".... you know what I mean?
And also in the case of this creeper... I think this is a case to bring back the ol' lobotomy. This guy needs to just... be gone. He, unlike the urchins, isn't any good to anyone... he has no purpose to do bad things. I read up about the story and saw that he was on parole for doing this SAME thing in 1977 to a 25 yr old woman. He kept her over the state lines in Reno Nevada... They apparently found her is a shed too with

[hr]
materials and adult objects... I can't believe he was ever allowed to see the sun ever again... Really? Obviously... he has a thing for this kind of behavior. What kind of things are going on with people...

 

[jackri]

Talking about that guy with a coworker has said he would literally kill him and take his 5years worth of jail. He's like.. oh I'd probably get 5 years for the crime of passion to avenge his kid... do his 5 years well worth it to rid the earth of that scum.
I'm glad they got their daughter back... but at that point it's not their little girl anymore. I feel bad for the whole family and new grand kids. They never asked for anything like that.
This might be why I get such satisfaction watching Dexter -- the serial killer who kills bad guys. Ahh if only it were true.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by rlablan
http:///forum/post/3125651
Aquaknight- I suppose that is good to know. It makes me feel a bit better about it. But I still think that animal probably has some sort of pain sensory. maybe it isn't as complex, sure. But I think there may be something there? If they can sense touching, and things on them or around, I would think they could feel something like getting cut in half.
I also think it's the principle of the whole thing too. This guy basically has no empathy for this animal. It's just a snack. It's not bettering anything except his belly and it doesn't seem to mean anything to him. It seems his attitude in the video and his comments about it are completely apathetic to this animal.
I suppose that is probably the thing that bugs me, is not that he's eating, not that he's even eating an animal, but that he is just so careless about it and that he planned this out by taking scissors to the beach. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the info AK, I do appreciate you bringing that to my attention.
Sure thing. My point wasn't to devalue your opinion at all, just perhaps provide some insight.
I watched the video, it seems like he's just showing off to the guy(s) filming. Like some tour guide or dive master taught him this at one point. You can actually sort of see the cruise ship in the background, and with the description saying they in Cozumel, it makes sense. Probably met the other guys and struck up a conversion that "yea, you can eat urchins right off the beach. When we land, I'll show ya..."
About urchins, yea, they are pretty cool little critters, and as the reefkeeper article mentions, one of the creatures we can actually depend on in aquaria. But for the sensory thing, I'll give ya an example of a much more complex, biologically, animal, that still doesn't come close to humans.
It's actually the old adage about frogs. Throw a frog into hot water, and he'll jump out. Place a frog in room temperature water, and slowly raise the temp to boiling, the frog will sit there and cook himself. As where humans, once water gets hot, something like 115° or so, we know to get out and turn the jacuzzi down

 

[rlablan]

So I am understanding... to say that they don't have sensory that is so complex as to feel mounting, slower, gradual pain but if it is a quick thing, like a

[hr]
through the head... they would get it? I am just trying to understand. Can they feel pain? or not... I mean... It's kind of that simple. I know it may not be what you would feel if I cut you like that, but... I just see no reason to harm a creature so simple and small like that just for the sake of a video. I don't think there is a reason to do anything inhumane like that but you know what I mean...
And Jackri, I completely know what you mean. As a judge, I would totally let someone off with like a warning If they were in a court room for doing something to a guy who did that to their kid. I might even give them a medal. Its okay though. The other prisoners will totally give him jail justice. --- offenders who prey on kids always get the worst in there.

 

[rlablan]

oh and jackri- who is dexter? Is that something related to Saw??

 

[jackri]

Google Dexter or Dexter Showtime --- its a series on Showtime.. and I hate crime dramas like any of the CIS's or what not... but man this show sucked me in and is done REALLY well.
If you want you HAVE to start with season one and go in order otherwise you just miss too much.
I'm not a TV watcher and this became one of my favorite shows catching an episode or two at work. Maybe its the dark humor with it too

 

[jon_fiasco]

let me ask you guys this questions, how do you feel about eating fish in general and sushi....?

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by Jon_fiasco
http:///forum/post/3125826
let me ask you guys this questions, how do you feel about eating fish in general and sushi....?
I don't like sushi...I love fish...DEAD THOUGH AND COOKED