EcoSystem 2410 Feedback

[tangs_in_pacifica]

I installed refugiums on two of my three tanks this weekend and I'm unimpressed with my EcoSystem 2410. IMOHO, my homemade refugium built from an old acrylic 20L is doing a much better job.
I have following issues with my EcoSystem 2410:
-Insufficient volume... the thing is tiny
-Lack of extra water capacity for power outages, top-off, etc.... basically, there seems to be about 1-2 gallons of play with this system (i.e. the difference between flooding during a power outage and my pump running dry is about 1-2 gallons). This means I need to monitor the level closely on a daily basis.
-Evaporation prone... This sump doesn't come with a lid, so the light sits over open water. Thus, water evaporation occurs 24/7... this is an especially bad issue, considering there's so little water capacity in the sump.
-Useless floating bio-balls... These things are so "1980s." The EcoSystem comes with these bright lame bioballs. The things float and are thus prone to dislodging and floating about all over the sump. This can be problematic, if you fill the sump with even 1/2 gallon over the recommended amount. I replaced these stupid bio-balls with Bio-Blox from Cercona... at least they don't float.
-Instructions... A two page pamphlet does not equal a manual.
-Expensive... I guess I paid for the Miracle
Overall, I think the EcoSystem setup is way overpriced and not as functional as the sump I built in the garage. The Miracle Mud looks neat, but that's a bit overpriced as well... ($45 for 5#?).
I can't vouch for the other size EcoSystem setups, but IMOHO the 2410 is overpriced with some pretty serious design flaws. EcoSystem, if you're listening:
-Allow for larger water capacity (i.e. larger tolerance between power-failure high mark and "dry-pump" low mark
-Lose the Bio-Balls and replace them with non-floating media... add a screen or do something to prevent those stupid balls from floating around the sump
-Add a lid... this will probably cost you a whopping $.50 a unit
-Include effective documentation

 

[ironreef]

ditto= diy is just as good but i find them better and cheaper

 

[ironreef]

ditto= diy is just as good but i find them better and cheaper

 

[zaxs]

At My LFS they had an EcoSystem setup and I was looking at it and I wasent impressed. the benefits from the mud and alge sounded good but I too thought that I could do much better myself at home. having the outlet water skimed off the top made me think that it would be possible that the water might simpley go in up one side then accross the top and out. I thought why not just set a tank next to my sump and put a mini jet in the sump and have it pump water into the tank then have an overflow on the other end of the tank run back into the sump wouldent this setup work the same if not better and also allow for a cover since most small acrilic tanks come with a hood and a light the only thing I'd have to do is drill an overflow. why buy it if you can build it.

 

[tangs_in_pacifica]

Update!
OK, I made the mistake of going 2-3 days without monitoring the water level in my EcoSystem 2410 tank... result, I burned out my return pump. Boy, this really ticks me off. On my homemade sump Berlin system, I've got about two weeks of slack... maybe more. This is great for infrequent vacations and frequent extended work travel. My little homemade refugium sump can probably get me 1 1/2 weeks... 2, possibly. Now I've got to rig some damned top-off device, in order to accomidate my travel. This blows! One of the main reasons I'm going with refugiums is the low maintenance required. This is a big benefit that EcoSystem is peddling. The juxt of is is that I'm going to have to make some additional modifications to this expensive sump I bought.
Again, I'm using the sump and not the hang-on model. As a hang-on Aquafuge user (I've had one on my 58 gal. for several months), I can attest to the fact that hang-ons do generally keep you awake night when you're on the road wondering if your tank is overflowing or your return pumps are buring out. As I've had great luck with my Aquafuge and other CPT products... I wish they'd make a bigger sump refugium model. Otherwise, I'll continue to be a Do-It-Yourselfer.
Can't believe I've got to buy a new pump this AM!

 

[tonga]

I run two of my systems on the miracle mud both through diy type sumps. I run them on a 75G fowlr and a 150G (soon to be 180G) reef, you should not put ANY macro in until you wait two full weeks for the mud to 'cycle'.. also.. what type of lighting are you using over the filter? I find just NO el` cheapo lights work great (the kind you find at home depot) also, how much mud did you add to each system? you can really do it at any amount but the more mud you put in the quicker results you will get, if you can't tell i'm a huge fan of miracle mud

 

[tangs_in_pacifica]

Tonga,
Thanks for the reply! It sounds like you've got a great thing going on with your systems. i also like the Miracle mud, though I'm not a big fan of the EcoSystem sumps. I also guess I screwed up by adding th Caulerpa within two days... whoops, we'll see??? I'm curious as to what sort of positive relutls you've seen from the Mud? I think the Mud looks great and like the concept... I'm just a bit sceptical, given the price. I'm going to convert my 100 to a D.I.Y refugium in the next few weeks and still haven't decided whether to go the Mud route.
Re: my lighting...
-I've got the Jali fixture with standard 13w Phillips power compact on my CPR Aquafuge and EcoSystem 2410. On my homemade 20L refugium w/live sand, I've got a "corallife???" mini-mite with 2x9w 5000k. It does OK...
BTW, are you also skimmerless???

 

[ironreef]

the mud doesn't act as a filter it feeds the caulerpa nutrients. The caulerpa is the filter. You can do without the $$$ mud and have the same results

 

[zaxs]

According to the Manufacture of the system their Miracle Mud is supposed to replace trace elements that are lost in the system and thereby reducing the need for water changes. in fact they recommend changing out half the mud every 2 years.

 

[ironreef]

exactly= the mud isn't the filter the caulerpa is . If you feed your tank everyday you are getting plenty of trace. w/c also. You still need to add calcium /buffer per manufacture so IMO the muds a waste of $$ or really isn't needed. ever here of an alga scrubber? samething = alga is the filter.

 

[zaxs]

the Question that put out on another post was about the mud. I asked if mixing the mud with live sand would be a good idea to get a deep bed without spending so much cash. do you think that this is a good idea. also would it be a good idea to put turbo snails and blue leg crabs in a refugium?

 

[geoff]

Mike Paletta's article (and several others on the ecosystems website) say that the miracle mud is in fact the most important part of the filter, it hosts anaerobic bacteria and all kinds of detritivores. Mike Paletta and others have tried this type of filter with different types of substrate and have not had the same results as with the miracle mud.
I'm just a beginer but in my opinion the mud is important, also the flow in the ecosystem refugiums isn't just across the top it flows in at the bottom and out at the top.

 

[ironreef]

they sell the mud this is why its important' LS is better. I've seen many systems with ,without. the alga /caulerpa is the filter. the mud isn't needed. But you can spend $7lbs if you want. I know many ppl who wish they didn't. It will work but the alga does the work. You can use any substrate. BBeliving the car salesman is what you are doing

 

[ddboy]

I have a 150g with the 3616 ecosystem pro. which includes the ASM skimmer. I am running 2 mag pumps for the return, so the water flow in the 2nd chamber is very good, sometimes I think it is just flowing too fast. as far as the filtration is concern. the real filters are the live rocks and sand and the skimmer. The mud is to replenish the trace element and to bind the phosphrates.
I have been using it for about 1 1/2 year and it is working pretty good, I find out that you should have the skimmer on 24/7 if you have many fishs like I good. since I did that. My Nitrate is starting to come down.