Electrical Warning

[2 fish]

I have seen a post on this BB about this subject before but now I am experiencing it first hand, I wanted to let others know and possibly help them from going through the same grief I am at the moment.Yesterday I did my monthly mantainence routine and everything was fine afterwards,I did notice however that all the softies (& i have alot) on my LR were closed up more than usual but figured it was due to my intrusion in their environment when doing the house work.This morning they had not opened and my polyps were starting to shut down as well, they were looking very sad indeed.I immediatly tested the water and everthing was fine,but by chance I placed my thumb in the water and felt an electrical current through a small cut I have.I run all my electricals through an industrial powerpak with RCD and couldn't believe the current that was running through the water.I kept my thumb in and 1 by 1 started to unplug all pumps in the tank until the current stopped, It was the oldest powerhead I have and had obviously just reached its use by date.It is now a waiting game to see if my softies and polyps come good,everything else in the tank seems to be (fingers crossed)I figure the only way we would ever know if their was electrical current in the water would be to use a multimeter, so with all the tests we do now do we add this one to the list as well? It was by sheer chance that I discovered this problem and the outcome, had I not, would and could still be catastrophic. So next time anyone notices their corals shutting down for no obvious(ie water quality)reason don't forget to check your water for electrical current.If anyone else has had this problem it would be great to hear the outcome because at the moment I am really depressed and worried that I'm going to lose everything.

 

[dad]

Thanks, Just make sure yor tank is on a gfci and you and your tank will be safe.
Every tank will have stray voltage. You may get a slight tingle now and then. Some people put grounding probs in their tanks to help solve this.
I disagree with them and could argue about them till I'm blue in the face but each to his own,

 

[mlm]

Whats wrong with grounding probes?

 

[dad]

Ok, all tanks have some degree of stray voltage in them. Stray voltage is caused by alot of things that I will not go into.
The voltage is there but has nowhere to go.
For voltage to go somewhere it has to have a path. It looks for a "ground".
If it has no path, it is harmless!
By adding ground probes to tanks, you are giving it a path.
Now what you have created is a electical current between all the things that caused the stray voltage and the probe.
Everything between these things is now being "shocked".
Alot of people use these probes to get rid of the stray voltage, right?
Well, where is this current (voltage) going?
If you do not give the voltage a place to go? It is harmless.
This is why I suggest a gfci to protect all and do not recomend probes for tanks.
I have been an electrician for 24 years and have consulted many top people in the feild on this.
I better be right,

 

[nacl-h2o]

I agree with you Dad. I've always advocated GFCI and shuned grounding probes. Can you imagine what would happen if a pump were leaking a voltage into a tank with a probe(your complete path to ground) that wasn't high enough to pop the braker but is high enough to kill. It takes 15 amps to pop a braker enough to kill a man many times over if not removed. What would happen if your fish/corals were exposed to 1-14 amps of current for hours.
I think small voltages are harmless and more significat voltages cause problems for animals and should be removed by removing the faulty equipment. Not by installing probes.
I check mine with my multimeter every once in a while. About 2 years ago I found one of my tanks was having a problem. It wasn't until I reached in (surprise) that I discoverd the problem 91 volts is what my meter read. Bad pump (no surprise).

 

[nacl-h2o]

After rereading my post I discovered I had said somthing I thought I'd never say "I agree with you dad". My dad and I don't agree on anything.

 

[bammbamm74]

Yep Dad, I agree. Voltage needs a path to be usefull or harmful, otherwise, it's just useless energy floating around in the tank and will eventually dissapate.
Also, everyone remember that if you can't get a GFCI in the socket where your tank is, find out where the first plug in the circuit is and put it there. Most homes have wall sockets wired up in series. YOu can check by turning the breaker off that your tank is on and see if there is a plug closer to the breaker than the tank one. You can put the GFCI there. If there is a short behind the GFCI (i.e. your tank plug) and the GFCI is wired right, it'll kick. FYI

 

[wolffam]

I also agree with dad. Creating a path completes the circuit. And in this case causing more damage. But a GFCI will trip shuting down the source. This is the same priciple used for swimming pools. Good luck on the recovery of your softies.

 

[crazy4reefs]

? i heard that there is a a gfci that you can have an electrician hook up to your fuse box and a gfci that is like a extension cord that you can just plug in to the outlet. is this true?

 

[bammbamm74]

You can get an inline GFCI at home depot. They are like around $20 to $30 and only about 2 feet long.
A GFCI is a Ground Fault Circuit Interupter. It is a protect that senses if there is an electrical short and it kicks the circuit, not letting anymore electricity to the short. They kick in a few nanoseconds.

 

[jumpfrog]

bammbamm74, I'm interested in placing a gcfi on other than the outlet my tank is running off as it would be ton's easier. How do you know if the outlet, also on the same circuit, is closer to the breaker? Or does it really matter?
Thanks

 

[bammbamm74]

I tell you what, since people didn't like that I posted a general way of wiring up a GFCI, I have deleted it. Please consult your local electrician to do your work.
Thank you.

 

[rangermonroe]

Dad,
I know I'm a new guy, but I have intimate Knowledge with electricity (2x200amp service disconnect residential w/ 3 miles of wire following). A/C voltage (our pumps,lights,sterelizers,etc) does not need anywhrer to go- it goes back and forth. DC voltage(cars etc) are like water in a pipe don't open the faucet, no movement(current). A/c is like a water pipe with someone turning on and off the faucet 60x/sec. It is a vibration of electrons which transfers the energy in A/C, while in D/C it is the flow. Our tanks are grounded(unless yours floats in a vaccuum) by their presence on the floor; however, this ground is not as effective as a metal ground wired intoa stake in the earth( household systems ground/neutral loop are staked w/ a 8'CU rod{SBCCI 1999}.
Long reply I know. I hpoe this was not confusing.
Short answer...Ground loop good!!!

 

[rangermonroe]

bambam,
It does not matter where in the circut the GF goes. The only difference is that when the GF pops, all the receptacles "down-stream" will go out as well. Good/bad. Sucks when the microwave kils the T.V. during "Blue Planet"....Cool when the U.V. sterilizer kills the T.V. during Oprah.
At the end of the circut would be desirable, but not at all necessary.

 

[hunterdaddy]

I have a degree in electronics so I kinda know what I am talking about. I dont see the need for grounding probes. I do very much disagree with the "stray voltage" theory. If there were voltage in your tank every time you put your hand in it you would be the ground. There is no reason for any voltage to be in your tank if things are properly maintained. By any voltage I meen anything you could feel. Living beings give off electric impulses (how some sharks hunt) but you wont feel this as it is too minoot (spelling).

 

[hunterdaddy]

Oh and dad for one other thing just FYI current and voltage are 2 TOTALLY different things.

 

[hunterdaddy]

Ok one more thing before I quit reading this redicilous post. Voltage wont just "dissapate" bammbamm. If there is a faulty unit in your tank, the only way to get any considerable volatge in it, it wont just dissapate.
You guys should stick to posting on stuff you know because from what ive read othere than the gcfi info (and they are not foolproof) you know little about electronics theory.

 

[rangermonroe]

Well then,
For the rest of us non-electrical engineers-wish I hada tank-theorist-major-wannabe-better-than-you-got no fish,-smarter than you- An electrical ground will not hurt your tank!!! You can disagree with me if you like

 

[dad]

Ok, here is an article I think you should read.
I agree with it except for the fact that he suggest a probe, When he clearly states that a probe will cause current in the tank!
The exact thing I have talked about!
<a href="http://www.petsforum.com/cmas/stray.htm" target="_blank">http://www.petsforum.com/cmas/stray.htm</a>
I will not get on the defensive side here. Even though I have the right.
I have done countless hours of resurch on this topic and feel like I know what I am talking about.

 

[goofyreefer]

Just because you put a GFCI in does not mean that any other outlet connected down stream from the GFCIhas to "trip" when the GFCI trips. That all depends on how you wire the GFCI. There are two ways of wiring them. So for the people who are having problems with this it is easy to correct. Just a matter of moving some wires.