emperor angel issues......NEED HELP

[bergamer]

I bought this guy from a fellow hobbyist about a week ago. He was doing great in his tank.
I purchase him and take him home. I place him in my 40g qt tank. The angel is a young adult who just changed colors. My qt tank has been running for a couple months and is fully cycled.
His only bunk mate in the qt tank is a 4.5" sohal tang who is doing great.
So far in this first week I cant get the angel to eat. my ammonia levels 0ppm
nitrite is 0ppm
PH was at 7.7, but I brought it up to 7.9-8.1
the angel's colors look bad and he has white color spots. he is also breathing rapidly and hanging around the top of the tank.
I thought it might be 02, so I also added an airstone, but nothing has changed. The angel seems to be getting worse as time passes.
HELP ME PLEASE!!!

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by bergamer
I bought this guy from a fellow hobbyist about a week ago. He was doing great in his tank.
I purchase him and take him home. I place him in my 40g qt tank. The angel is a young adult who just changed colors. My qt tank has been running for a couple months and is fully cycled.
His only bunk mate in the qt tank is a 4.5" sohal tang who is doing great.
So far in this first week I cant get the angel to eat. my ammonia levels 0ppm
nitrite is 0ppm
PH was at 7.7, but I brought it up to 7.9-8.1
the angel's colors look bad and he has white color spots. he is also breathing rapidly and hanging around the top of the tank.
I thought it might be 02, so I also added an airstone, but nothing has changed. The angel seems to be getting worse as time passes.
HELP ME PLEASE!!!
In a 40 gallon salt tank with two larger species of fish you should have a semi-strong powerhead running. At least a maxi600-900. The airstone will do nothing but add to the problem. How did you acclimate this fish? You had a ph issue. Was the PH that low when you put him in? Do you know the basics of what a ph reading is? A reading of 7.7 is 30x more acidic than a reading of 8.0. That is a huge problem. Get a good power head in there ASAP. Why was your PH so low? What are your nitrate readings? What is your SG and KH readings?

 

[bergamer]

my nitrate reading is 35ppm
sg is a little high .027
I have not tested for KH yet
but I seem to have problems keeping my PH up
I acclimated the fish by floating for 30 minutes and then slowely adding water to the bag over 30 minutes.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by bergamer
my nitrate reading is 35ppm
sg is a little high .027
I have not tested for KH yet
but I seem to have problems keeping my PH up
I acclimated the fish by floating for 30 minutes and then slowely adding water to the bag over 30 minutes.
You should realy start drip acclimating your new fish. A half an hour of water transfer is not enough time. The fish is likely reacting to the change. If the water conditions were wonderful he would adapt easier, unfortunately they are not. Your SG is 1.027 and you have no circulation. That is a huge stress factor alone. The higher the SG the more dense the water is and the less oxygen it holds. Lack of circulation will account for the low ph as well. Pick up a good powerhead.

 

[beth]

Take a look at this:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/127010/diseased-fish-pictures#post_1027985

 

[bergamer]

my emperor is doing very poorly and I want to begin myacin 2 treatments immediatly. But, it would take too long to set up anpther qt tank. Would it hurt my sohal to go through the myacin treatment with the emperor?
also, it is a 40g QT tank. How large a water change should I do daily?

 

[lesleybird]

Does that antibiotic kill your biological filter bacteria? Also, if he was doing great in his tank from a friend and the friend had not added any fish into his system for at least a month he would not need to be stressed in a little quarenteen tank. But now, he is stressed in the little tank and may be sick from the ph or something. He may be more stressed because he is in the tiny tank with another fish. Don't know what to tell you. Get some live brine shrimp to entice him to eat. Do you have enough hiding places so he can de-stress? Find out what he was eating in his previous home to see if he will eat that. Oxygen is a thing to consider. Also had the tank live rock or sand and has it cycled. If your antibiotic has killed the cycled bacteria population you may need to change out 10 gallons every day or two or you could have amonia and nitrite problems. What kind of filtration do you have on this tank? Is there adequate gas exchange? Is the other fish bullying it? Good luck, Lesley

 

[k-rok]

Angels are fairly delicate fish and things have to be just right for them. I would make sure he has a nice place to hide - add an ornament or anything that he can get behind and hide. And get some flow in the tank, have the powerhead aimed slightly upward as to disturb/oxygenate the surface of the water. Not too much flow though because if he is weak he will struggle to fight the current. Good luck - Emporers are amazing fish - hope yours recovers.

 

[beth]

Did you look at the link above to see if your fish is similiar to this situation and simply suffering from an environmental issue, which antibiotics will not resolve, and may even hurt?

 

[bergamer]

Originally Posted by Beth
Did you look at the link above to see if your fish is similiar to this situation and simply suffering from an environmental issue, which antibiotics will not resolve, and may even hurt?

my water perm are good,
nitrate a little 0
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
PH 8.0
temp 79
the angel is almost compltely white and he sits at the top of the waterline with his head almost out of the water.
I treated him him myacin 2- dropped 4 tabs in my 40g

 

[bergamer]

Originally Posted by Beth
Did you look at the link above to see if your fish is similiar to this situation and simply suffering from an environmental issue, which antibiotics will not resolve, and may even hurt?
I dont understand the before and after as the thread says it is a reaction to poor environment and the environment in his tank was perfectly fine. very similar to my situation.
my water perm are good,
nitrate a little 0
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
PH 8.0
temp 79
the angel is almost compltely white and he sits at the top of the waterline with his head almost out of the water.
I treated him him myacin 2- dropped 4 tabs in my 40g

 

[nicetry]

If it was an environmental issue, the tang would be affected as well. It was suggested that the angel might be being harassed by the sohal. Have you noticed this at all? Angels I've kept often exhibit some malaise when another large fish is introduced. If the angel is feeling stressed or bothered, it may refuse to eat. The stress hormones can inhibit immune function. We often underestimate the power of stress and what it can do to an organism. The angel sounds like it is near death. Keeping it by itself in dim lighting will reduce stress. I would also begin hyposalinity to ease osmoregulation.The fish will expend considerably less energy in hyposalinity.

 

[bergamer]

the emperor passed tonight.
the sohal tried to bully the angel, but the angel chased the sohal and then they stopped fighting.

 

[k-rok]

Sorry to hear that. All you can do now is learn from it and move on.

 

[sepulatian]

Have you added more circulation?? You had very poor water flow, did you correct that issue? What exactly do you think the fish had that you were treating for? BTW anytime a medication is added even MORE circulation is needed as most of them use up oxygen. Just a litte FYI.

 

[bergamer]

I added a mj1200 and it was toward the top of the tank to create agitation. I am not sure what I was treating. My water quality was good, as my sohal is doing great. I read the thread from beth and there was a suggestion of myacin2, so I figured I would give it a try as I had nothing to lose. that was the 2nd emperator angel I have lost within a week of purchase, I am done with full size angels!

 

[jktenpro]

I think the problem might have been the acclimation and the additional stress of the tang(since the sohal tang was fine and emporer was healthy in friends tank). If you say your salinity is 1.027, the bagged water from your friends tank was probably lower than that(did you check) and 30 min of transfering water might have been the problem as well as the difference in the ph. If his ph say was around 8.2 or so and yours was 7.7 initially, 30 minutes of transfering water is not enough time to make the transition smoothly(huge stress factor).
I have drip acclimated a juvenile emporer angle and a majestic on seperate occasions into a quarantine tank but making sure the ph, salinity and temp were exact before placing them in(acclimation time varies depending on source water). The angels live in harmony by the way, both took about 3 days to start eating.
I would try another angel later but make sure nothing is in the quaranteen when you do it besides hiding places, after working on stabilizing the ph around 8.2. Third times a charm. Don't give up on angels yet!