engineers out there? tank crisis...

[fixed]

I've had a 55 g tank in my office for about 4 months, and I now have a 150 sitting there dry but ready to be filled. Coincidentally, a guy with the building owner saw the new tank and wants me to get rid if it, citing the lease disallowing animals and saying the floor load rating won't handle it. This is a brand new commercial office building of steel and concrete construction, and we're on the third floor. It's in California, so you know the building codes, particularly for seizmic issues, are very stringent; it's likely a very strong building.
I think I can deal with the "animals" issue, but I need some ammunition on the structural load issue. I figure the filled tank will be around 1500-2000 pounds, spread out on a roughly 2'x6' footprint (on a hardwood Oceanic cabinet). My guess is that the load isn't a whole lot different than filled steel file cabinets, which we have lots of, as we're a law office, or maybe even a large desk.
Can anyone help? I really want to keep my fish here. Thanks.

 

[phoenixfla]

Originally Posted by Fixed
I've had a 55 g tank in my office for about 4 months, and I now have a 150 sitting there dry but ready to be filled. Coincidentally, a guy with the building owner saw the new tank and wants me to get rid if it, citing the lease disallowing animals and saying the floor load rating won't handle it. This is a brand new commercial office building of steel and concrete construction, and we're on the third floor. It's in California, so you know the building codes, particularly for seizmic issues, are very stringent; it's likely a very strong building.
I think I can deal with the "animals" issue, but I need some ammunition on the structural load issue. I figure the filled tank will be around 1500-2000 pounds, spread out on a roughly 2'x6' footprint (on a hardwood Oceanic cabinet). My guess is that the load isn't a whole lot different than filled steel file cabinets, which we have lots of, as we're a law office, or maybe even a large desk.
Can anyone help? I really want to keep my fish here. Thanks.
Sounds like it will be a tough fight. You will probably need a structural engineer to issue an opinion that the floor will handle the load. Alternately, you could weigh your heaviest file cabinet and figure the load per square foot.
How are you getting around the animal part? Growing only Calerpa? haha

 

[clown52]

Ever try to move one of those fireproof file cabinents. I wouldn't think your tank to be much heavier that say 3 of them, and they are on less area. May want to look up the weight on google or something to check.
Is this a shark tank?......Sorry I couldn't resist.

 

[scsinet]

If I were you, I'd check into the building codes in your area. I doubt there are any municipalities out there that don't specify a static load rating, especially for commercial floors.
When you find the PSF rating for your floor, you can approach it that way... you can claim that if the floor can't handle the load, then the building isn't built to code... yada yada.
Be careful. If you roll the dice and lose, you might piss them off bad enough that they'll make you get rid of the 55. I run IT and Facilities for my company, and I know I have a bad attitude like that...

Incidentally, they have a valid concern if they bring up what would happen if that tank leaks. Major property damage...
...but I also have a 120 gallon tank in my office, but it's on the ground floor.
Short answer: That floor can support that tank. You just have to prove it to be able to argue.

 

[fixed]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
If I were you, I'd check into the building codes in your area. I doubt there are any municipalities out there that don't specify a static load rating, especially for commercial floors.
When you find the PSF rating for your floor, you can approach it that way... you can claim that if the floor can't handle the load, then the building isn't built to code... yada yada.
Be careful. If you roll the dice and lose, you might piss them off bad enough that they'll make you get rid of the 55. I run IT and Facilities for my company, and I know I have a bad attitude like that...

Incidentally, they have a valid concern if they bring up what would happen if that tank leaks. Major property damage...
...but I also have a 120 gallon tank in my office, but it's on the ground floor.
Short answer: That floor can support that tank. You just have to prove it to be able to argue.
By my calcs, the tank will run around 100 psf, and the building code is probably right at 100 psf. However, my understanding is that rating is an average over the floor area, not one limited area -- otherwise, a 200 lb person standing with feet together would be double the load rating, etc.
Already got rid of the 55, and just coincidentally the 150 is sitting here ready to go. Except for a glitch in the cabinet/tank compatibility (cosmetic), the tank would have been filled last weekend. Good thing, I guess, just in case they do not allow it.
We have huge file cabinets, and I'm told that paper is much denser than water. Surely the floors are rated for the file cabinets.
Thanks.

 

[nytrillium]

From the estimates you gave. the tank will put less than 2 lbs per square inch onto the floor. If your floor cant handle that... the building is screwed anyway. Like someone said, find the load rating on the floors. Your PSI will be less than 3 no matter what you add to the tank.
Yeah your calcs. sound about right. It is probably an overally PSF rating, however that has a "fudge factor" in it along with a fairly large safety factor to cover the asses of the engineers that designed it. If its a concrete floor reinforced with steel and it is new construction, i really wouldnt worry about it. Besides, like you said you live in CA where codes add protection for earthquakes.

 

[scsinet]

I am not sure on the 100... I think you're low. I believe residential buildings are supposed to be able to handle at least 120, but I could be very wrong. I can say with a level of certainty that commercial buildings are always built to support more load than any residential building.
Like I said, I run IT and Facilities, so I deal with the computer equipment. We have racks that weigh at least two thousand pounds. The UPS in my server room weights over 1200, and it is a 2x2 footprint. The room this equipment is in wasn't a server room when the building was built, and nobody asked any questions about us putting that stuff in there... I can't imagine why the 150 wouldn't be okay... I mean... if you can't put a 150 in a commercial building, where can you put it?

 

[nytrillium]

Good point SCSI.... Servers tend to get heavy...

 

[thegrog]

The thing is that the load on the floor, the building can handle. I don't think the tank can handle a quake. Glass does not flex well and that is a very top-heavy structure (tank and stand) that can tip with movement....like a quake.
Personally, I think he is full of s**t. He may have you on the animal issue though, no arguing that if it is policy/code.

 

[billy mac]

hi,
i do home and buiding inspections, by trade i'm a union carpenter in ny and have built high-rise concrete commercial buildings. that tank won't even be a feather on that floor. the only way your land lord has a leg to stand on is the possibility of a leak factor, strucually, that floor will not have any problem suporting that weight. i've seen bigger tanks in houses on 2nd and third floors (250 gal. on 3rd floor of residential home). good luck with your fight, you're a lawer you should win, lol.
also, my wife works in herald square in a historic building, her office is on the 5th floor, and they have and 125 custom made in the wall by nyc aquarium, rite next to her desk. yes, it is her task to take care of fish and she loves them (job perk).
well, again, good luck hope u win

 

[phixer]

NYTrillium is correct. Mmm...Can the weight of the tank be dispersed over a larger area using some type of a platform underneath the stand, i.e plywood? then covered with an area rug. This would in effect lower the ammount of weight per SQ FT. If you could find out the rating of the floor per SQ FT in LBS and can show that the weight of the tank per SQ FT is less than the floors load rating in LBS per SQ FT you might be able to prove your point and would get to keep the tank, then again if the tank might leak onto wiring beneath the floor. This information will be in the blueprints for the building Im thinking, if you can find out who the builder was maybe you can call them and get the details.
Phixer

 

[37g joe]

On the animal issue that means that people cant even have betta's in some flower pot check around i bet some one elses office has one also I work in the food industry and even health codes allow for display fish tankes in resturants. Fish are seen as decorative unlike say a gerbal in a small cage

 

[nytrillium]

Just a thought... the PSI rating of the concrete is the real issue here i think. I believe that concrete can hold a compression load of upwards of 1000 psi without a problem no matter what concrete it is ... So a commercial building should have no problems with that... Find out the concrete they used in the floors and that could be your arguement

 

[swlover]

***) I'm depressed now...sounds like your office is bigger than my whole house. By the by my mom had a 100 gal tank in a house built in 1940's, down south (we all know about the great building codes down here..you can live in a shack!) and it supported it fine for years..they did however have to add another beam under the house..but that was before the tank! So I would say unless that is the worst steel and cement building ever built it would hold it! Looks like he just needs an excuse for you not to have the tank! Just my 2 cents worth!

 

[scsinet]

I've got a great idea. Get a bunch of those fireproof file cabinets that weigh like 500 lbs each empty. Put more and more in your office until you have at least about 6 in there. If your floor doesn't collapse, you know it can hold the tank.
If it collapses, you know it wouldn't have worked and you save all that money on the fish!

 

[johnic]

I'm an architect in NYC and I have designed and built numerous bldgs. The bldg's floor is designed to accept a certain load per square foot. This PSF is determined by the designers structural eng. called "Dead Load" (ie: 100 psf 150 psf, NYC is typ. 100 psf max etc...)
For example: a high density file cabinet room (rolling style file cab.) must be structurally reinforced from below due to its heavy distributed load across x amount of sq. ft.
Sooooooo a 150 gal. fish tank with water and rock might exceed 1,500 lbs. and prob. does not fall over a beam, it would need additional structural support from above or below. Your best and only solution is to touch base with the bldg's structural eng for his recommendation. Maybe you can locate the tank over a beam below that can handle this dead load.
I hope this help's