expert ich advice

[goldenboy]

I'll start from the beginning. About a year and a half ago I bought an achilles tang. I properly qt'd it with hypo and after about 6 weeks moved it into my display tank (240) It's mostly a sps tank with 60x turnover flow. He's always happy, but maybe once a month a few spots that look like ich show up. There is no scratching on rockwork or anything other then the spots that would make me think it is ich. A day later the spots are gone and everything is great. I recently added a lawnmower blenny that fought with the achilles and bit him in the head. It now shows strong signs of ich as well as a sore on the head from the bite. All other fish (including other tangs) are healthy. Should I ignore the ich signs and continue to feed a healthy variety of foods or try and remove and requarintine? It still isn't scratching against rockwork, but has LOTS of white spots all over it. My reef is very hard to pull a fish out of and I can't figure out how ich would appear out of nowhere. Could it be some other disease?

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by goldenboy
http:///forum/post/2477362
I'll start from the beginning. About a year and a half ago I bought an achilles tang. I properly qt'd it with hypo and after about 6 weeks moved it into my display tank (240) It's mostly a sps tank with 60x turnover flow. He's always happy, but maybe once a month a few spots that look like ich show up. There is no scratching on rockwork or anything other then the spots that would make me think it is ich. A day later the spots are gone and everything is great. I recently added a lawnmower blenny that fought with the achilles and bit him in the head. It now shows strong signs of ich as well as a sore on the head from the bite. All other fish (including other tangs) are healthy. Should I ignore the ich signs and continue to feed a healthy variety of foods or try and remove and requarintine? It still isn't scratching against rockwork, but has LOTS of white spots all over it. My reef is very hard to pull a fish out of and I can't figure out how ich would appear out of nowhere. Could it be some other disease?
Well, I would say that adding the lawnmower blenny could be the source of your ich. Did you QT the LMB at all?
At any rate, your whole tank is now exposed to ich so you'll need to treat all the fish. Do you have a QT big enough to take them all out and treat at the same time? Since you have a reef, that would be the best approach. You should treat the fish in QT with the hypo method or with copper (though I'd personally lean towards hypo).

 

[goldenboy]

Originally Posted by m0nk
http:///forum/post/2477372
Well, I would say that adding the lawnmower blenny could be the source of your ich. Did you QT the LMB at all?
At any rate, your whole tank is now exposed to ich so you'll need to treat all the fish. Do you have a QT big enough to take them all out and treat at the same time? Since you have a reef, that would be the best approach. You should treat the fish in QT with the hypo method or with copper (though I'd personally lean towards hypo).

LMB was qt'd for 4 weeks (no hypo) , but showed no signs of ich or unhealthiness.

 

[chrgerondavins]

I have been through this, Ich is the most IRRITATING parasite EVER I hope ALL Ich dies a long, painful death. But yes treat all your fish

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by goldenboy
http:///forum/post/2477362
I'll start from the beginning. About a year and a half ago I bought an achilles tang. I properly qt'd it with hypo and after about 6 weeks moved it into my display tank (240) It's mostly a sps tank with 60x turnover flow. He's always happy, but maybe once a month a few spots that look like ich show up. There is no scratching on rockwork or anything other then the spots that would make me think it is ich. A day later the spots are gone and everything is great. I recently added a lawnmower blenny that fought with the achilles and bit him in the head. It now shows strong signs of ich as well as a sore on the head from the bite. All other fish (including other tangs) are healthy. Should I ignore the ich signs and continue to feed a healthy variety of foods or try and remove and requarintine? It still isn't scratching against rockwork, but has LOTS of white spots all over it. My reef is very hard to pull a fish out of and I can't figure out how ich would appear out of nowhere. Could it be some other disease?
Ich does not appear out of nowhere. It has been in your display. How it got there depends on how well you quarantined all of your purchases, including rocks, inverts, etc. Healthy fish are able to fight off the parasite, but it is still there. The blenny has a compromised immune system and is not as able to fight the parasite off as well as the other fish are. If you want to remove the parasite from your tank you will have to remove all of your fish, not just those showing signs of ich.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2477828
Ich does not appear out of nowhere. It has been in your display. How it got there depends on how well you quarantined all of your purchases, including rocks, inverts, etc. Healthy fish are able to fight off the parasite, but it is still there. The blenny has a compromised immune system and is not as able to fight the parasite off as well as the other fish are. If you want to remove the parasite from your tank you will have to remove all of your fish, not just those showing signs of ich.
Sir Q can you please clarity something for me I always thought a fish either had ick or it did not a tank either housed it or not I don’t understand the concept of a healthy fish being able to fight off the parasite exactly what does that mean does the parasite not attach its self to the host fish if so it can not feed and thus the life cycle is broken and no more ick or does it mean that the fish Is infected but does not show any signs which I don’t understand because going by that reasoning ick would continue to multiply and at some point totally infect the gills and the fish would suffocate to death

 

[genelegend]

Ive been reading all the posts on ick and been getting a fair understanding on how to treat. Ive had my tank set up for about 2 1/2 months. Its a 55 Gal. with blue tang( and yes i read about min. tank size for tang but that was before i got schooled up) 2 damsels, percula clown and 2 hermit crabs. My blue tang has ick been scratching itself and all other symptoms especially white spots. Ive tried OTC ick medicine w/water change followed by FW dip. He still actin the same w/white spots. Am plannin Hypo treatment, Just need assistance to make sure im completing it correctly. Any Assistance Please help !!!!!!

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by GeneLegend
http:///forum/post/2479085
Ive been reading all the posts on ick and been getting a fair understanding on how to treat. Ive had my tank set up for about 2 1/2 months. Its a 55 Gal. with blue tang( and yes i read about min. tank size for tang but that was before i got schooled up) 2 damsels, percula clown and 2 hermit crabs. My blue tang has ick been scratching itself and all other symptoms especially white spots. Ive tried OTC ick medicine w/water change followed by FW dip. He still actin the same w/white spots. Am plannin Hypo treatment, Just need assistance to make sure im completing it correctly. Any Assistance Please help !!!!!!
go to Beths thread on Hypo it give you a step by step plan of attack

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2479025
Sir Q can you please clarity something for me I always thought a fish either had ick or it did not a tank either housed it or not I don’t understand the concept of a healthy fish being able to fight off the parasite exactly what does that mean does the parasite not attach its self to the host fish if so it can not feed and thus the life cycle is broken and no more ick or does it mean that the fish Is infected but does not show any signs which I don’t understand because going by that reasoning ick would continue to multiply and at some point totally infect the gills and the fish would suffocate to death
Healthy fish fight off the parasite. Some parasites can and will still attach but the majority of them will not be able to. If the parasites cannot attach then they cannot reproduce. This keeps the population of the parasites in the tank under control. A weakened fish will not be able to fight off the parasites and more will attach causing a spike in the population of parasites in the tank. Enough parasites live to keep the population going but not enough, especially in larger tanks, to infest the fish. Unfortunately, at some point or another one or many of the fish will have a compromised immune system and an outbreak occurs. This is why it is so important to get the parasites out and keep them out through proper quarantine practices.
GeneLegend, Welcome to the boards! Please start your own thread and we will be happy to walk you through the treatment.

 

[goldenboy]

I've read many theories as to how by increasing the feedings and vitamins (such as selcon) you can get the fish to fight off the ich on its own. This is the way I will try until the fish has gotten worse. Today the white spots (still don't wan't to commit to calling it ich) has gotten a lot better. There seems to be about half of what there was yesterday which was the first day I noticed this. Let's forget about ich for a moment and stick to the fact that this is a black colored fish. Could it be something other then ich? There is clearly a bite mark on its head from the LMB. I know pictures would help, but taking a picture of a super fast fish in an eight foot tank is nearly impossible.

 

[sepulatian]

It could be something else, but nothing else looks like ich. Lymphocystis is white but it is cottony looking. Bacterial infections usually are red. Increased slime coat would be thick. Take a look at the Diseased Fish FAQ. Beth has pictures of various ailments there. From what you describe though it does sound like ich. Them looking "better" is part of the life cycle of the parasite. They fall off to reproduce. I understand why you would be nervous about it being ich because that is a large tank to have to catch fish in and treat.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2479240
Healthy fish fight off the parasite. Some parasites can and will still attach but the majority of them will not be able to. If the parasites cannot attach then they cannot reproduce. This keeps the population of the parasites in the tank under control. A weakened fish will not be able to fight off the parasites and more will attach causing a spike in the population of parasites in the tank. Enough parasites live to keep the population going but not enough, especially in larger tanks, to infest the fish. Unfortunately, at some point or another one or many of the fish will have a compromised immune system and an outbreak occurs. This is why it is so important to get the parasites out and keep them out through proper quarantine practices.
GeneLegend, Welcome to the boards! Please start your own thread and we will be happy to walk you through the treatment.
Ok still trying to understand so please be patient by healthy fish do you mean their slime coat being adequate enough to keep the majority of parasites from attaching? And even though up to 200 theronts can be released by a single tomont the majority of them will die not being able to find a host and there for maintain a low enough level of ick as to not jeopardize a healthy fish

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2479312
Ok still trying to understand so please be patient by healthy fish do you mean their slime coat being adequate enough to keep the majority of parasites from attaching? And even though up to 200 theronts can be released by a single tomont the majority of them will die not being able to find a host and there for maintain a low enough level of ick as to not jeopardize a healthy fish
Yes, healthy fish will have a thicker slime coat that the parasites have a hard time penetrating. Fish with a compromised immune system have a depleted slime coat that the parasites can get through. I am trying to find you a link, unfortunately most of what I am finding I cannot post a link to or it is other forums, not articles. There is quite a bit of information on this out there. Google "healthy immune systems and cryptocaryon irritans"

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2479331
Yes, healthy fish will have a thicker slime coat that the parasites have a hard time penetrating. Fish with a compromised immune system have a depleted slime coat that the parasites can get through. I am trying to find you a link, unfortunately most of what I am finding I cannot post a link to or it is other forums, not articles. There is quite a bit of information on this out there. Google "healthy immune systems and cryptocaryon irritans"
Thanks Sir Q I know some times its like we are bumping heads but in the long run the good info coming out is what its all about and I just looked at some of the info links you can not post to bad very informative stuff

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2479366
Thanks Sir Q I know some times its like we are bumping heads but in the long run the good info coming out is what its all about and I just looked at some of the info links you can not post to bad very informative stuff
I don't think we butt heads at all. I love a good discussion

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2479808
I don't think we butt heads at all. I love a good discussion

So do I to bad our copper and silicone discussion only attracted 33 viewers

 

[1boatnut]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2479240
This is why it is so important to get the parasites out and keep them out through proper quarantine practices.

Well after your explanation I really don't see how that is possible. Someone could properly quarantine a what appears to be healthy fish that really has Ich but is not showing any signs. Then after what could be months the infected fish's immune system is compromised and now the Ich takes over.
Just when I thought I had a handle on understanding Ich

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by 1boatnut
http:///forum/post/2479965
Well after your explanation I really don't see how that is possible. Someone could properly quarantine a what appears to be healthy fish that really has Ich but is not showing any signs. Then after what could be months the infected fish's immune system is compromised and now the Ich takes over.
Just when I thought I had a handle on understanding Ich

I can see how you would get confused. When fish come from the lfs or are shipped they are stressed. They are not treated as they are in our tanks. Ich generally shows itself within two weeks. You have to really watch your fish though. You cannot throw fish into a qt and just get them out when the three weeks are up or you are very likely to miss a parasite. You have to monitor your fish. You don't have to stare at them with binoculars all day, but a quick, yet thorough, check twice a day will tell you what is going on with your fish. Sometimes it takes longer for ich to show itself. This is why three weeks is recommended. I personally quarantine for at least a month or more, but that is just me. Ich will show itself if it is present on the fish. Certain fish, such as tangs and butterflies, are likely to have ich. You should expect it if you buy one of these. If you don't like playing the waiting game then you can certainly just hypo these fish when you get them.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by 1boatnut
http:///forum/post/2479965
Well after your explanation I really don't see how that is possible. Someone could properly quarantine a what appears to be healthy fish that really has Ich but is not showing any signs. Then after what could be months the infected fish's immune system is compromised and now the Ich takes over.
Just when I thought I had a handle on understanding Ich

i was thinking the same thng seems hypo it the only answer for any new arrivals Sir Q i recieved an answer from mote maine and i posted what i was told in the copper and silicone tread

 

[al mc]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2481104
i was thinking the same thng seems hypo it the only answer for any new arrivals Sir Q i recieved an answer from mote maine and i posted what i was told in the copper and silicone tread
If you have a QT system and stick with a minimum 3 week quarantine, then hypoing all new fish is the best practice IMHO. Plan: first 2-3 days in QT they are in normal salinity.
If eating/appear 'OK', the drop SG to hypo levels over 2 days, three weeks in hypo, 4-5 days to get out of hypo. You have taken 4 weeks to completely hypo the fish insterad of 3 weeks starring at them waiting for them to show disease or missing a symptom of disease. Since Ich appears to be the dominant infectious disease of the marine fish hobby..what does an extra 7 days in QT matter?