redarizona
Member
Thanks doodle1800, I have done this about 10 years ago with a different set up. I just wish I was on this site before I put my fish in. Thanks for all your help...This site is great, and I will get that book....I mean Rich LOL
fish are dying
- Thread starter redarizona
- Start date
redarizona
Member
I thought I could trust my lfs, I have worked with them over the years, but like I've seen here, they want to make there money...one of my clowns is not doing good today, and the yellow tang has some sort of brownish areas around face and gills. I checked my numbers after I changed the water and I show a slight rise in ammonia, nitrites are scant pink...by the way is there another testing method that is better?
redarizona
Member
Boy oh boy...what a nightmare...I just hope you guys here don't leave me...I want to learn as much as I can from here and that book you recommended...I meant what I said, if the rest of the fish die, I won't be putting anything in there for at least two months. If they do die, how do I get them out of the tank, I know there are at least one dead one in there and I can't find him, because of all the rock...do I have to move all the rock out of the way?
redarizona
Member
beaselbob, everyone calls me red...I like that, thanks...anyway if you have read the previous threads, I do have plant live in the bottom sump with the miracle mud...have you heard of the eco-system that uses miracle mud? it's new to me, I have a couple of snails in there, but my lfs said that I would develop the tiny "shrimp", I haven't seen any of that yet...also he told me to keep the light on over the top of that continuously...is that normal...in the wild, it gets dark in the ocean right? that's the only plant life I have in there, I have crushed coral...can I still have plant lif in the main tank?
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by redarizona
beaselbob, everyone calls me red...I like that, thanks...anyway if you have read the previous threads, I do have plant live in the bottom sump with the miracle mud...have you heard of the eco-system that uses miracle mud? it's new to me, I have a couple of snails in there, but my lfs said that I would develop the tiny "shrimp", I haven't seen any of that yet...also he told me to keep the light on over the top of that continuously...is that normal...in the wild, it gets dark in the ocean right? that's the only plant life I have in there, I have crushed coral...can I still have plant lif in the main tank?
Sorry I missed your previous threads. Yea I have heard of the miracle mud system.
If the sump is say less that 10% of the volumn of your display, then IMO the plant life is not sufficient. Also plant life does include the various algaes also.
The ocean does get dark at night and ph does drop. When you checked your paramters did you have a just before lights off ph below 8.0? Something to watch for. Not that the actual ph drop is as bad as the build up in carbon dioxide that caused it. Obviously plants consume carbon dioxide and a low ph may indicate the plant life is not consuming all the carbon dixide.
I use sand but I guess you could use CC for macros or marine plants. Just be sure to protect them or at least culture them in another container. Fish especially tangs and angelfish, like to eat them. Or even set up an in tank refugium.
when I had a ph drop, my fish would mainly slowly deteriorate over about a three week period. My ph (daytime) had dropped to 7.4. After adding macros to my display ph rose to and stayed at 8.2-8.4, and the fish did much better.
HTH.
redarizona
Member
so far I have left the lights on 24 hours in the lower tank...I was told by my lfs that the system I bought was perfect for the 100 gal I use, I spent a fortune on this system, I just hope I didn't get taken...ph is at 8.3 and has stayed there the whole time.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by redarizona
so far I have left the lights on 24 hours in the lower tank...I was told by my lfs that the system I bought was perfect for the 100 gal I use, I spent a fortune on this system, I just hope I didn't get taken...ph is at 8.3 and has stayed there the whole time.
sound like the ph is fine.
I am a great fan of plants. For instance I lost two tangs including a healthy yellow, until I added live macros to my display. Not only did the ph recover, but a very small, skinny, sickly looking, not eating yellow started eating with the live macros. Now 9 months later he has doubled and almost trippled in size. And you should him and my coral beauty (4-5 months) constantly graze on the Caulerpa and gracillaria in the display.
Hope this settles down. Let us know what happens.
redarizona
Member
thanks, however I live in Arizona, and I know that my lfs does not carry a good variety of plant life...where can I get more? from the web site? I know that swf.com dosen't ship to AZ, probably due to agriculture laws...I sincerely appreciate all the great info from all of you...
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by redarizona
thanks, however I live in Arizona, and I know that my lfs does not carry a good variety of plant life...where can I get more? from the web site? I know that swf.com dosen't ship to AZ, probably due to agriculture laws...I sincerely appreciate all the great info from all of you...
Understand and that is correct. You (if you haven't already) just stretcha couple of plantic window screens across the sump and let the algae grow. After all that is plant life also.
For more comercial links email me at beaslbob@aol.com
Edit: thas is also of LFSs anywhere in the country.
redarizona
Member
thanks again for your help...I just talked with my lfs on the phone and he thinks it could be an oxegen depletion, or bacteria..he is recommending meloflex for bacteria, just in case, and bubbles to add to the main tank on the bottom...I have 2 powerheads and the outflow from the sump now...what do ya think?
doodle1800
Active Member
I think he doesn't know what he's talking about. Putting that many fish, that soon, those kinds of fish, should tell you he's an idiot. You shouldn't have to put anything in that tank like that. The tank has only been setup for a month for petes sake. The process should be natural and not have to rely on chemicals other than a good water change and plant life like bob suggests. - in my humble opinion.
You don't add bubbles to a tank - what is recommending - an airstone?
You don't add bubbles to a tank - what is recommending - an airstone?
timg
Member
Red:
do you travel to phoenix for fish, if so what store do you go too? As far as the rest goes, you do not need plants to have a thriving tank, you just need patience. Give you tank a chance to mature. Keep a couple of hardy fish like yellow tangs for a couple of months and just let the system do its thing. Make sure parameters are correct and do your water changes and keep the plant life in your sump not display. With 100lbs live rock you system should set up just fine once it has matured. Just slow down and take you time and things will get better
do you travel to phoenix for fish, if so what store do you go too? As far as the rest goes, you do not need plants to have a thriving tank, you just need patience. Give you tank a chance to mature. Keep a couple of hardy fish like yellow tangs for a couple of months and just let the system do its thing. Make sure parameters are correct and do your water changes and keep the plant life in your sump not display. With 100lbs live rock you system should set up just fine once it has matured. Just slow down and take you time and things will get better
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by redarizona
thanks again for your help...I just talked with my lfs on the phone and he thinks it could be an oxegen depletion, or bacteria..he is recommending meloflex for bacteria, just in case, and bubbles to add to the main tank on the bottom...I have 2 powerheads and the outflow from the sump now...what do ya think?
Red: I don't like additives of any kind. I also do not have any experience with meloflex.
In aquariums with oxygen consuming and carbon dioxide producing fish, oxygen depletion is exactly the same thing as carbon dioxide buildup. Again plants will consume the carbon dioxide and that will "suck in" oxygen rich air into the water column.
bang guy
Moderator
Hey Red,
Sounds like you're having one heck of a fun time.
I agree with the LFS that the Miracle Mud System is fine. I'm not a big fan but it's better that a lot of other systems IMO. I also agree with keeping it lit 24/7. How large is your MM system?
Since you stocked up so fast you're going to have to go through a lot of water. Don't rush the water changes though. You still need to carefully mix the saltwater and let it circulate (airstone or Powerhead) for at least 24 hours. You should also be using pure water (RO/DI) when mixing it up.
AmQuel+ could be a good friend. It will tie up the Ammonia until your next water change. This should allow your fish to breath easier. Watch your fish closely. If they are breathing rapidly a dose of AmQuel+ should help. No more than one dose a day though. The Ammonia will probably still register on your test kit so keep that in mind.
You need to find that dead fish ASAP and get it out.
Are you running a skimmer? If not, maybe it's time to get one.
Sounds like you're having one heck of a fun time.
I agree with the LFS that the Miracle Mud System is fine. I'm not a big fan but it's better that a lot of other systems IMO. I also agree with keeping it lit 24/7. How large is your MM system?
Since you stocked up so fast you're going to have to go through a lot of water. Don't rush the water changes though. You still need to carefully mix the saltwater and let it circulate (airstone or Powerhead) for at least 24 hours. You should also be using pure water (RO/DI) when mixing it up.
AmQuel+ could be a good friend. It will tie up the Ammonia until your next water change. This should allow your fish to breath easier. Watch your fish closely. If they are breathing rapidly a dose of AmQuel+ should help. No more than one dose a day though. The Ammonia will probably still register on your test kit so keep that in mind.
You need to find that dead fish ASAP and get it out.
Are you running a skimmer? If not, maybe it's time to get one.
redarizona
Member
Thanks to all of you who have responded to my dispair...I just want to say that I tore down the whole tank, found all the dead fish, Put the only yellow tang and 1 clown I have left in a quarantine tank, and left my cleaner crew in the display...i did a good cleaning to the cc that I had in there, so far this morning all looks well in the display tank. I have a 29 gal for the other two and per recommendation, added melofix, and copper medicine, just in case...they seem to be doing real well this am. I was told to use the water from display tank and medicate that so I don't shock them even more...I think my problem was that i also purchased from another source, and even though my lfs said that I could have those fish in there, he is not totally to blame...I put more than i sould have...He fixed me up though with the 29 gal, filters and meds though, and since it cost alot of money, he let me have it now and I can pay later...he's not a really bad guy...I think I just moved to fast...Again, I will always be on here to learn new stuff and let you know whats going on. hopefully in a few months I will have pictures to show...
doodle1800
Active Member
Originally posted by Bang Guy
I wish you had not added the medications. Whoever advised adding that stuff to your display tank needs to be fired.
I agree..... I'm glad you said that Bang.