Four C02 questions...

spruce

New Member
Hi Everyone,
-Is C02 important to monitor and control like Alk, PH, and Cal, are?
-Is it better to have C02 a little high in the tank or a little low?
-Is the main contributor to C02 in the tank from photosynthetic plants/algae?
-Would keeping my glass top open, increase or decrease C02, or neither?
Thanks guys,
Spruce
 

josh

Active Member
1) no not unless you are using a cal reactor and injecting CO2 into the system.
2)Once again if you aren't injecting it then dont' worry about it, but to answer the question you don't want excess CO2 in the system, but the only times I have ever heard of it besides running a reactor is a guy who had lots of plants in the room and never opened up the windows.
3) Not IMO, mostly it comes from the ambient air in the room... i.e you and any plants in the room.
4) running a system w/o a top is always a good idea. It aids qutie a bit in gas transfer. I would recommend running an open top more for the oxygen benefits than the CO2 benefits. But yes it will allow excess CO2 to be exhanged out for O2.
 

spruce

New Member
Thanks Josh!
I got curious about C02 after I read Broomers post about how C02 seems to govern the alk, calc, and PH levels within our tanks. So I began to wonder if keeping C02 in control could help aid at keeping the PH, calc, and alk in control too.
Guess we cant really govern C02.
Thanks again,
Spruce
 

broomer5

Active Member
Excellent josh !!! I'd give ya two thumbs up but I can only add one here :D
The thing about CO2 - is the carbon.
There is a carbon cycle - just as there is a nitrogen cycle in our little boxes of saltwater sitting in our family rooms.
This carbon cycle is similar to the same carbon cycle that exists EVERYWHERE - including the ocean.
If there is one think to study in this hobby ( especially if running a reef tank ) after you understand the nitrogen cycle and how to cycle a new tank - it's this carbon cycle.
Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, calcium, magnesium are the top 5 players in this crazy saltwater world we fiddle with.
It's the various COMBINATIONS of these elements - that both lead to a wonderful balance in the tankwater - AND - can reek havoc if they get out of balance.
Think about what these top 5 actually do ......
pH = amount of hydrogen in the tankwater.
CO2 = combined carbon & oxygen - used by algae for photosynthesis. Plants give off oxygen in return.
CO2 affects the formation of carbonic acid, which leads to formation of bicarbonates and carbonates - both of which help stabalize the tank's ability to neutralize naturally occuring acids as they form in the tank. CO2 affects the alkalinity level.
Carbonates are used by hard corals and coralline algae to grow.
Oxygen - used as fuel by most lifeforms - fish, inverts & bacteria.
Calcium - this one's obvious - it's allows for skeletal formations in coralline and hard stony corals. It also is a major factor in natural seawater - and must be maintained in our tankwater as well.
Magnesium - this one's trickier - but let's just say that without sufficient levels of magnesium - it's near impossible to maintain the alkalinity/calcium relationship. It competes with calcium - it's supposed to. It keeps things in balance.
And let's not forget about H2O - this one's importatant for sure ( I can hear you saying DUH~no kidding Broomer~ as I type this )
But it's the carbon cycle that really runs the balance.
Carbon in the form of CO2 that changes form - that creates CARBONic acid ....... biCARBONates ...... that form CARBONate.
The funny thing about CO2 gas and alkaline seawater/tankwater.
the carbon in the CO2 can actually become "entrapped" in the water - because it changes form into other chemical compounds.
But the reaction can go either way depending on a lot of factors.
The only way to measure total carbon in the tankwater ( or ocean ) is to measure ALL of the various forms that carbon can occur as.
CO2 being one - the gas we talk about.
Carbonic acid - tends to drop pH somewhat - but is natural process in the reaction and it's what allows a calcium reator to do what it does to the media.
Bicarbonates - aids in buffer capacity
Carbonates - aids in buffer capacity and donates itself along with calcium for coralline/hard corals to grow.
josh's answers are much more to the point Spruce.
As far as measuring CO2 and trying to control it - it's changing form so fast - that it's hard to measure.
But I will say this ......
The entire tankwater chemistry is affected by the AMOUNT of CO2 that either enters the tankwater from the air, is produced by living plants in the tank or is "free'd" up when the chemical reations moves from the right to the left.
Lastly - if you're interested - here's a very basic description of the reaction.
CO2+H2O <~~> H2CO3 <~~> H+ HCO3- <~~> 2H+ CO3--
CO2 = carbon dioxide
H2O = water
H2CO3 = carbonic acid
H+ = hydrogen
HCO3- = bicarbonate
2H+ = two hydrogens
CO3-- = carbonate
This chemical reaction can and does occur ALL THE TIME in our tankwater ~ and the actual amounts of each compound will exist in the tankwater DEPENDING on the relative concentrations of all the others.
I may not have it written exactly as a 'chemist' would write it ~ that's for sure ;)
 

josh

Active Member
Broomer,
That's a good stochiometery job you did there, you even got the arrows correct to show that the reaction happens in both diretions constanly, which is why is it so hard to measure accuratly. For this reason we regulate the CO2 injection rate into rxtrs by a needle valve, regulator and a bubble counter so we know what we are putting in rather than trying to figure out what is in the tank. ( which is IMO a guess at best )...for those of you that don't know, ideally we just put enough in to "melt" the media giving us a little if any CO2 being actually introduced into the tank.
:)
 
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