Future banning of coral reef animals.

[i3luedragon]

I read recently in Marine Fish and Reef 2001 Annual and I noticed this short article by the Technical Editor. She implies that the reefkeeping hobby has contributed to the decline of the fish population and destruction of the reefs. Is this true? Although she states other reasons for this, the main concern were that environmentalists have evidence of this and a ban or severe restriction may be at hand in the future years.
I am fairly new to this hobby so it would be a big dissappointment to see myself cut short. I do see; however, stores selling species that have no way of making it in captivity, selling only for profit, or hobbyist buying stock after stock with fatal depletion. So I am not surprised with the fact that the whole fish industry is damaging the seas on top of our other environmental problems. What does everyone make of this? Should we stop? Restrict? Preserve? Spend more money vs. more damage to the environment (if you think about it, using up lots of electricity and water over the years has damaged so much of the environment, anyone for solar power and condensation machines?)? Any input would be great for discussion.

 

[03]

well although i love to view a coral reef thru the years in all my experence i don't know to many people with refs that have had the same pieces of coral for long periouds of time this leads me to believe that keeping coral is a no no and we should just leave it where it belongs,although with the wheather changing the oceans depleating the artic warming,it really dosn't matter because it won't be here to long anyway.
also i think wind is the way to gofor electric

[hr]
my 2 cents

 

[twoods71]

I believe the future in reef and fish keeping will be with tank raised specimens.
Almost all fresh water fish and plants are tank raised and saltwater is heading in the same direction.
I curently have a tank raised percula clown, colt coral, and pulsing xenia and recommend buying tank raised when ever possible.

 

[gobylover]

Well,I think that its very sad to think that all the things in our tanks,well most,have been taken from its "home",shipped all over creation,been in so many water conditions,and moved all over.That would be like someone coming into my home and taking me to a basement far away at about 20 degrees and getting me there in the trunk of a car.That is very sad.But,that don't stop me from buying them.If I don't,someone else will.At least I know I'm giving them a home with good conditions to live in.If the store is going to sell them,I will buy them.

 

[i3luedragon]

That also posses another question. I was thinking also if I bought them to save them I would do them some good. But then again that is not entirely true. In doing so, the fish stores might just go out and get some more since we bought more, because we thought in mind, "I am saving them".

 

[q]

It will probably be like all things. As popularity increases so do the people watching and also the impact on the habitat. Just like land access in wilderness is being monitored, taxed and regulated I woould expect the same of the reefs. The biggest trick is to find the balance between those who want to over protect and those who through negligance destroy the reefs. Since the prices of live stock will go up if there is regulation then it will become more profitable to do tank raised species thus increasing the avalibility.
My 2 cents.

 

[jacrmill]

just an idea? sounds like youve been thinking that out for a little while. i think it sounds pretty good to me. alot of it sounds like it is right out of my Econ class. sounds good, and ill glad pay that $50 to not have to waste the hundreds on bad LFS.

 

[jups1]

Our paper recently printed a large article about this. Actually, there are groups that are partnering, for the first time, and moving forward to push for strict regulation of reef harvesting and importation. Wish I still had the article - can't remember who it was. It's the largest Marine organization.
Anyway -
This is a good thing, and they praised hobbyists for bringing this about.
This hobby has grown a great deal over the past few years, and the US is the biggest importer.
Most hobbyists want their reefs to survive and not die off quickly. Therefore, we look for fish and corals that do better in captivity. This has led to people lobbying harder to protect the reefs. So we hobbyists have actually helped, even though we are still the reason the reefs are harvested in the first place.
The reefs are dying not because we're taking everything, but because of illegal harvesting, such as using syanide. This kills the reef and is currently the biggest problem.
This Marine ***. wants to make everyone (who harvests/sells fish & corals) be licensed, and so far, they have most countries agreeing with the plan.
Soon, we'll just have fish smuggling, like drugs. But if a lfs can't say where something came from, and prove it - they can lose everything.
Also, hobbyists know which animals do best in captivity, and there will be regulations as to what can be sold. No more difficult fish or corals that simply die after a few months.
I am all for regulating this industry, since it has become so large. And saving the reefs. We can all still enjoy our tanks without feeling like we're the cause of the problem. Prices will most likely go up higher, but so be it.
Also, the method for harvesting fish & corals will be strictly regulated. The preferred method is net caught fish (small nets) and corals that are grown/propogated on screens in the ocean. This keeps fisherman from constantly removing corals from the reef itself, and actually raises healthier corals, since they are protected and watched over. This article went in depth as to how the idustry would be regulated, but I don't want to write a book.
Ciao! Juli
[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: jups1 ]

 

[burnnspy]

Dang Trey, good answer, but you didn't mention my favorite:
Mandarin Dragonette
BurnNSpy

 

[bobber]

Well, Trey, you said everything that I feel. There are a few places to get farm raised corals and fish and I would like to see that number increase. We, as the hobbyist, should take every means necessary to ensure that the livestock we keep, will be healthy and cared for and in the proper requirements.
Also, the hobbyists, play a VERY small role in the destruction to coral reefs, if at all. The amount of waste spilled into the ocean DAILY is almost 10x more destructive. Another thing, we know more about space travel and putting the government in control, than we do about life in the ocean. There is so much we don't know, so much to learn. That is what I find fascinating about this hobby-continual learning.
In Aquarium Fish Magazine(June2001), there is an article(quite extensive one, I might add), about the unsucessful keeping of goniopora. Amazingly, people still think they could keep this coral. Yes, it's a challange-a losing one-but humans are always thinking that they are different, special. We take everything for granted. And it will bite us in the ass later! My thoughts--Bob

 

[tjswanson]

My fellow sharks should fine this funny!
I AGREE
TJ

 

[twoods71]

Trey I like everything you said but I disagree with supply meeting demand.
Almost all livestock you can buy for freshwater is farm raised somewhere with many farms being in Florida.
A majority of the freshwater fish are far cheaper then the saltwater fish because the cost of the divers, jobbers, and distrubutors are cut out.
The aquarium hobby in the US is the second largest hobby and makes up about 12% of the US population. 11% is freshwater and 1% is saltwater.
If the freshwater farms can keep up with the hobby I think as time goes on and there is more of a demand for saltwater farms they will do just fine in keeping up with the hobby also and I believe some of the prices will actually come down.
Just my opinion.

 

[beth]

What would be the criteia for getting started--level one?
Perhaps an actual class of some sort? Actually, how would you progress? How would anyone know if you're advanced enough to progress? Certifications usually require a test of some sort, proof of advancement.
Would someone come into your house to see how your FO tank was doing to see if you can progress to the next level?

 

[shel]

I agree with Trey. I would be more then happy to pay $50.00 for the Certification test. It would regulate the stores, so we would not have the bad lfs.
Shel

 

[mr. tang]

This is a fantastic topic!!! I would like many of you pay $50 or more for certification. To become certified, you simply take a test. If someone studies on their own, online or a company (fish store) derives a profit by teaching the information, who cares. I think that this would also stimulate the Saltwater hobby. All of my friends think that Saltwater is too hard to attempt. With these classes many would have success right from the get go because they would have done it right.
If you want a great example, look at the SCUBA hobby/industry. You must be certified and the hobbie is not dying. Saltwater fish look a heck of a lot better than their Freshwater counterparts. With more people having success I believe that we would experience a surge of interest in this hobby.
Just my thoughts

 

[wolvesheart]

Why is it that when someone perceives a problem their first solution is regulation. This country certainly does not need further regulation. As for certification I have a few thoughts. I am a MCSE with experience but Microsoft wanted to increase its exposure to the corporate world and came up with the idea of certification. Within 5 years there has been an explosion of MCSE's in the marketplace produced by the plethora of Computer training 'schools' and teach yourself books. Do most of these paper MCSE's (most with no practical experience) know a fraction of what someone with 2 years or more of experience knows? And then what does Microsoft do..... change the certification so everyone has to do it again. Same thing would happen in this Hobby.
And who would write and monitor the tests? Even the Sharks cannot agree completely on how to measure and supply lighting to a tank. And assuming our knowledge does grow what happens to the guy who has had years of success with a mechanical filter when other methods like Berlin, DSB or a Plenum system? Will that person have to be recertified to buy his next piece of coral?
No I think that while your idea sounds wonderful in a utopia, in the real world it would create more problems and ultimately drive the people with the real knowledge and passion out of the hobby.

 

[twoods71]

Certification for the LFS owner and employees Yes.
Certification for the hobbiest No.

 

[rickt4du]

As the economy generated by the hobby decreases through the years the certification will become easier and easier.
Take a look at Amateur Radio...FCC regulated, you used to have to show extreme electronics and operating proficiency to get a Ham Radio License..Over time less and less people were drawn to the hobby due to lack of time and energy to BECOME AN EXPERT TO HAVE A HOBBY...in order to gain new recruits the FCC dumbed down the tests, boom!! Lots of new Ham Radio Operators, lots of money spent. A few more lean years go by and the FCC lowers the requrements once again. Pretty much anybody can get a HAM Ticket these days. The ARRL, the Non-Profit Group that represents Hams Radio in the USA is driven by Radio "Big Money" The FCC is out for the quickest buck and folded under pressure by Radio Equipment dealers to lesson the requirements for obtaining a license. The limited choices in equipment are very expensive and pretty much the hobby is boring now. Certification in the aquaria hobby may be good for the environment but will only keep new hobbyists out. Only die hard "Fish Nerds" will be in it and they better be rich. I think our best bet is just information, BBS like this have probably done more to educate people like us than any kind of forced studying ever could. SCUBA keeps idiots from killing themselves, unless human life was in danger I just dont think the general public would go for any type of certification. I figure the environmentalists are going to have their way, we will have mucho regulation, fish and corals will live, hobby will dwindle and unfortunately, Al Gore wins after all. I think I'll go turn on my old radio.
[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Rickt4du ]

 

[twoods71]

Once again I agree with Rick.
If I had to be certified to start this hobby I would have thought twice about it.
I have been keeping saltwater for about 4 years now and enjoy every minute of it.

 

[bobber]

Well, Trey, again I agree, but...
The hobbyist getting into any kind of hobby, not just saltwater, needs to be informed on what he/she is getting into. I'd like to make a point here, READING! No one reads anymore. With all the great books out there on this hobby or any other hobby, that is how people get informed. Or at least give them a strong base of information to judge thier ability in that particular hobby. Hands on of course is the BEST learning tool, but making INFORMED decisions BEFORE purchasing anything, will benefit everyone, livestock included. On the other hand, don't always listen to what you read or hear. Take all thing with a "grain of salt"(yes the pun was intended) and take into account all information and make an educated decision. If four out of five people say that goniopora will die in six months, wehat is the point of even trying to keep this coral? Especially when that fifth person has no substantial merit as to the sucess of his/her coral.
There are other ways to ensure the sucess of keeping a reef tank. Knowledge...by reading and asking questions before finding out how to feed a coral after you buy it. ANY livestock intrduced to the hobbyists' tank should recieve the proper care from day one. --Bob