Get a book for the holydays

[florida joe]

Ok I just have to say this reading more and more threads in the new hobbyist section I am lead to believe that people have come to the boards for answers to questions that are so basic that they don’t have even the beginning foundation needed to start this hobby. I am now ready and always will be here to help but one has to read and reread to even understand the first step in starting up a marine aquarium. Please buy a good book start there then ask questions on things you don’t understand patient’s friend that’s the key.
The new hobbyists area states a starting point for new saltwater hobbyists. I just don’t think it replaces good old fashion bookwork as the starting point
I could take a person off the street give them a list of questions with yes or no answers have them ask them on the new hobbyist forum and in less then a year they can have a full blown reef tank. Is that good for the hobby? I don’t think so if you are going to accept the responsibly for caring for a life form you own it to that life form to be as knowledgeable as you can. My feelings are that to many yes or no questions are being asked with out the proper explanations being given through no fault of the person answering as to the whys . Also to many questions are asked which are so far along the time line that for a person to ask that question at all shows they have now idea how they even got to that point and that is IMO very bad for the hobby

 

[nitschke65]

Amen, Brother. I'm still a newbie myself, but I find myself parroting information that I've read either here on SWF or in a book. Do yourself a favor here everybody. Take Florida Joe's advice. Hit the library first if you want. If you haven't been to a library, they'll actually let you borrow a book for nothing! Oh, and to make sure we've got this all laid out for you, a book is a bunch of pages all bound together with information on all kinds of different subjects. If you pay attention while you're reading, you might even learn how to spell. Almost all of the sentences you'll read in a book will be complete, and all the words will be spelled correctly.
Sorry, but it does get irritating when you see that people don't read, and don't use the search function, and ask the same questions over and over.

(Good Lord I hope I just spelled everything right!)

 

[gmann1139]

+1
There's really a difference in the information presented.
A book is a great place to learn the foundations of the hobby. And a second book is a great place to get a second opinion. And a third is great to get a third opinion.
The boards, in general, are best for specific questions. I know we all complain about "1000 threads on the same topic", but in this hobby, there are one hundred variables for each person and tank, so every situation is not the same, and oftentimes, you can learn a little more with each thread.

 

[robertmathern]

I agree but I am a newbie that asked about the same questions for the most part.Some of these questions would be answered at the top of this thread. I also disagree on reading books will help you spell I read all day every day and still can not spell for crap but thats a different story. Its the alachol typing at this point lol. But for the ones that have read up on this I have another piece of advice. Read all florida joes threads alot of info there. Most of witch a newbie will not grasp. From what I see its a bunch of people googling stuff copying and pasting to look smart but every so often they care to explain there reason there and thats when a newbie will learn alot more than I have read in a book somewhere. Like the one going on right now. also the seach functions kinda sucks I have almost given up on it. Also lion craz f you read this your 101 tip to maintaining an saltwater aquarium has one main piece missing to it that i see being asked from time to time. The #1 main piece to a salt water tank is salt water. I keep seeing people asking if they should add sand rock or water first. And most of them dont even have water to add to there tank. They might get it when they get there rocks but never think about the fact you want to mix it the night before. just a thought you might want to add.

 

[jrod4u]

Being a newbie myself, having mine fish and reefs going, albeit, they are all pretty hardy, I really have learned alot through this site, talking with my lfs guy, which has yet to steer me wrong, and just googling peoples different experiences, even before I started a tank. I can say right now, over months of reading, without even turning a page, I feel like I have read several books. I am like a sponge with this wanting to learn more to be able to create the best environment for my little ecosystem. Some times my questions are basically for mere reassurance that I am doing the right thing, and also sometimes my questions are before I do something or buy something else, again to make sure I will do the right thing. I think in some cases, hearing advice from people in the hobby is better than reading a boring book.

 

[robertmathern]

Originally Posted by jrod4u
http:///forum/post/2886395
Being a newbie myself, having mine fish and reefs going, albeit, they are all pretty hardy, I really have learned alot through this site, talking with my lfs guy, which has yet to steer me wrong, and just googling peoples different experiences, even before I started a tank. I can say right now, over months of reading, without even turning a page, I feel like I have read several books. I am like a sponge with this wanting to learn more to be able to create the best environment for my little ecosystem. Some times my questions are basically for mere reassurance that I am doing the right thing, and also sometimes my questions are before I do something or buy something else, again to make sure I will do the right thing. I think in some cases, hearing advice from people in the hobby is better than reading a boring book.
+1 could not have put it bettr myself

 

[nitschke65]

Originally Posted by robertmathern
http:///forum/post/2886298
Its the alachol typing at this point lol.
Hahahahahahaha!!!!!
I'll admit that I'm just a bitter old man, and I'd already had quite a bit of "Christmas cheer" when I wrote that previous post. But I stand by my statement. If people would proof read their own posts, they'd be able to notice misspellings and incorrect punctuation, just by letting their brains compare what they're looking at to things they've seen in print. The problem is that very few people seem to think it's important. As long as they can get their point across, that's all that matters.

 

[culp]

if you do start with reading a book (which you should) don't just read one book about keeping a marine aquarium. read as many books that you can get a hold of to get advise for more than one source.

 

[gmann1139]

Originally Posted by jrod4u
http:///forum/post/2886395
I can say right now, over months of reading, without even turning a page, I feel like I have read several books.
I disagree with you on that point.
A book is structured to give you all the information that you need, in a structure that's designed to make sense.
Searching, googling, messages threads, etc., are great for information, but they're inherently disorganized, which means that it is quite easy to miss information, not because it as forgotten or disregarded, but because the information was never presented or come across.
I agree that this site and other message boards are, over the long run, a better source of information; however, by their very nature, it is impossible for them to provide a complete, structured foundation on which the rest of your knowledge can grow.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Originally Posted by gmann1139
http:///forum/post/2886871
I disagree with you on that point.
A book is structured to give you all the information that you need, in a structure that's designed to make sense.
Searching, googling, messages threads, etc., are great for information, but they're inherently disorganized, which means that it is quite easy to miss information, not because it as forgotten or disregarded, but because the information was never presented or come across.
I agree that this site and other message boards are, over the long run, a better source of information; however, by their very nature, it is impossible for them to provide a complete, structured foundation on which the rest of your knowledge can grow.

+1
I own a whole library on marine and reef keeping, not to mention marine biology. Books do offer more structure to starting a marine tank. I suggest to everyone who is new to reef keeping to buy a good book, such as Bob Fenner's "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist."
Though, I have read a lot of books, books are sometimes old and outdated. I keep current with new methods and ideas by following forums and reading more experienced peoples posts. Forums are a great way to gain new information, but if you don't arm yourself with information to ask the right questions in the first place - you will never fully understand the concept.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by gmann1139
http:///forum/post/2886871
I disagree with you on that point.
A book is structured to give you all the information that you need, in a structure that's designed to make sense.
Searching, googling, messages threads, etc., are great for information, but they're inherently disorganized, which means that it is quite easy to miss information, not because it as forgotten or disregarded, but because the information was never presented or come across.
I agree that this site and other message boards are, over the long run, a better source of information; however, by their very nature, it is impossible for them to provide a complete, structured foundation on which the rest of your knowledge can grow.
Wow are you sure your from Jersey

only kidding (I am just a dumb Sicilian guy born and raised in Brooklyn) I could have not said it any better

 

[vince-1961]

Spelling, grammer, punctuation, verb conjugation and, for handwriting, legibility, are all important. Unfortunately, the English language has all but disappeared from our public schools where free breakfasts and federally mandated test scores reign supreme and from public media where the language is consistently massacred. Let's not even consider the implications of "ebonics" or "spanglish."
Does anyone realize that the word "transition" is a noun and cannot be used as a verb? One may make a transition from A to B or one may transit from A to B, but one does not transition from A to B. ""Transitioning" is not a word.
Does anyone remember that there are no exceptions to the rules against splitting an infinitive, ending a sentence with a preposition, or beginning a sentence with a conjunctive? Does anyone still know which form of pronoun is used as a direct object and which as an indirect object (I/me, he/him, we/us, etc.), or even the grammatical difference between a direct object and an indirect object?
Then again, I am bilingual, received a wonderful education at Pace Academy in Atlanta and Duke University, miraculoulsly survived law school and now use the English language, both written and spoken, as the primary tool by which I earn a livelihood.
As for me, I use that rather nifty little "edit" button down there to correct my errors if I didn't catch them before I hit the "submit reply" button.

 

[florida joe]

I think my reference to books should be amended to include people. New hobbyist should avail themselves to one on one conversations with more experienced hobbyists god knows we love to talk and talk about our hobby. My point again being that in this faster is better world of information gathering we in this hobby may have spawned a group of new hobbyists looking for only yes or no answers with out caring for the why. On my last trip to my LFS I saw an obvious new comers eyes light up when he looked at a beautiful nano reef. His first question to the sales person was how much; his next was are they in stock. As I was leaving I witnessed the sales person writing up the order. Is the store at fault, perhaps but they are in business to make money. In my car I was thinking to myself, the boards will be seeing that guy very soon. And that my friends was the reason for my thread

 

[florida joe]

wow always wanted to say this

"STOP HIGHJACKING MY THREAD" this is not about ones command or lack of the English language

 

[snakeblitz33]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2886920
I think my reference to books should be amended to include people. New hobbyist should avail themselves to one on one conversations with more experienced hobbyists god knows we love to talk and talk about our hobby. My point again being that in this faster is better world of information gathering we in this hobby may have spawned a group of new hobbyists looking for only yes or no answers with out caring for the why. On my last trip to my LFS I saw an obvious new comers eyes light up when he looked at a beautiful nano reef. His first question to the sales person was how much; his next was are they in stock. As I was leaving I witnessed the sales person writing up the order. Is the store at fault, perhaps but they are in business to make money. In my car I was thinking to myself, the boards will be seeing that guy very soon. And that my friends was the reason for my thread
Live fish stores are hurting right now. Business is business - just like anything, they have to make money too. But you can also look at it like this: If that guy didn't sell him that system or whatever - then new comers would not come to these boards in the first place and learn everything that they have done wrong.
Yes, reading a good book is always the best thing to do before you buy - but lets face it - most people are not going to do this, and that is why we are here.

 

[nitschke65]

I just hope the lfs had some books on hand so that the salesperson could add one to the order. I know of a store around here where, when you look into the package deal tanks, there's all the usual equipment AND A BOOK! Unfortunately, I'm sure that's the thing that gets used the least, unless it's the right thickness to level the aquarium stand!
I'd also like to say that, I spend most of my time on this site trying to learn. I do occasionally respond to other posts with my opinion on an issue; but, I very seldom stick with any thread for very long if it is filled with misspelled words, disjointed thoughts, and confusing internet/text abbreviations. I move on to try to find intelligent thoughts that are well presented and easy to follow. The kind of information you could find in a good book. This hobby is confusing enough already.

 

[culp]

Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2886976
Live fish stores are hurting right now. Business is business - just like anything, they have to make money too. But you can also look at it like this: If that guy didn't sell him that system or whatever - then new comers would not come to these boards in the first place and learn everything that they have done wrong.
Yes, reading a good book is always the best thing to do before you buy - but lets face it - most people are not going to do this, and that is why we are here.
my favorite LFS is a great store. if you go in there to buy a fish before they even get the net out they ask your a list of questions.
1. How long has your tank been set up?
2. How many gallons if your tank/dimensions?
3. What fish do you already have in your tank?
4. How much live rock do you have in your tank?
they ask every one that question to make sure that every one who does buy fish from them is prepared to take care of them.

 

[nitschke65]

Originally Posted by Culp
http:///forum/post/2887035
my favorite LFS is a great store.
Fine, we can change the title of this thread to, "Get a book for the holidays, unless you live in Mishawaka, Indiana."

 

[florida joe]

[/QUOThat is precisely my point new comers should NOT come to the boards with everything they have done WRONG when the majority of things that have done wrong are mistakes made in the fundamental understanding of the very earliest stages of our hobby and who pays the price for these fundamental mistakes made by not taking the time to do any kind of homework, the live stockTE]
That is precisely my point new comers should NOT come to the boards with everything they have done WRONG when the majority of things that have done wrong are mistakes made in the fundamental understanding of the very earliest stages of our hobby and who pays the price for these fundamental mistakes made by not taking the time to do any kind of homework, the live stock

 

[florida joe]

[QUOIf that guy didn't sell him that system or whatever - then new comers would not come to these boards in the first place and learn everything that they have done wrong.
TE]
That is precisely my point new comers should NOT come to the boards with everything they have done WRONG when the majority of things that they have done wrong are mistakes made in the fundamental understanding of the very earliest stages of our hobby and who pays the price for these fundamental mistakes made by not taking the time to do any kind of homework, the live stock