Getting Started

[pfitz44]

Hey all. Just getting in to the salt water fish tanks. Unfortunatly, i didn't know this website existed until i started up my tank. So all the information that I had to go on what what the guy at the LFS had told me.
I have a 55 Gal tank, and i started the cycle with a couple of damsels. (This is the reason that i started the new thread, not read the "new hobbiest" that was posted not too long ago). I have a coupple of 900 Maxiflo powerheads, and a Cascade Canister Filter (I believe it is the 1000 model).
Right now I have two pieces of dead coral that i picked up at the store. What I am basicly wondering is what to put in it besides those two pieces. Should i stick with the dead stuff (Coral and rocks) or go with the live? Whats the benifit with going with the live? If i do get the live, can i add it in now, or should I wait until the tank cycles?
I attached a picture of what it looks like now. I've got some cool ideas for it (I think). I've been reading the board while im at work and you guys seem to know alot more about this then anyone that I've talked too. Look foward to hearing from everyone!
~Fitzy

 

[wax32]

Welcome! You don't have the right lights for live corals. They require lights that will cost you more than what you spent on the rest of the tank. Research lighting a LOT before you decide. Tank looks good so far. Here are my 2 cents worth:
1. Buy some "live rock": it is filtration for your tank and makes your tank look natural. (No it isn't really alive but it is full of microscopic critters and bacteria that are beneficial to your tank. It isn't cheap but read up on it... you can add some a little at a time. Eventually you will want at least 50-75 pounds of it in your tank.
2. Bite the bullet and get rid of that crushed coral gravel the fish store talked you into. Buy some fine grained saltwater aquarium sand. It looks nicer and is less trouble to maintain in the long run. You will probably need 2 - 25 pound bags.

 

[aquapro_1]

In my opinion, live is better. Live rock or sand. It continues to keep your water params in check. Dead has no other features than looking good in the tank. Oh, yeah, and for the fish to hide in or around. I have a fish only. Therfore I opt'd for live sand. If you prefer a reef, then the best opt. would be l/r so the corals have something to house on. Not to mention the natural atmosphere the l/r provides. Having none. You opt to do more water changes and basically work harder for the tank. Vs having the tank work itself. Yeah, yeah, still have to do the water changes, but not that frequent. Some will bring up a refum. If you got a green thumb, great. But I haven't any. I have killed everything including my herb garden!! Ivy people put in water & grows like weeds?? Can't kill 'em! :hilarious Give it to me & by the end of the week, gone!

Choice is yours.

 

[pfitz44]

So i am definitly going to get some live rock to put into it. Is there a good base to use?? or just put the rock on the CC and build up from there? Also, can i add it in durring the cycling of the tank, or should i wait till the cycle completes?
I was also thinging of adding some Anemones to the tank as well. I do not know much about them at all. Will they "fasten" themselves to the LR? Or do they need something else? I am assuming (And i know what people say about assuming) that i should wait till the cycle is complete before adding these in.
Wax, you said that i should get rid of the CC and go with sand. If i were to do this, i would have to basicly drain the tank, remove theCC and add the sand, add the water back in, right?? or can i vacumn the CC out and remove the fish and dead coral and pour the sand into the tank as it is now? Also, is there a benifit using sand rather than CC?? I spent like 4 hrs washing all of the CC, and would be kinda pissed at myself if i had to get rid of it. Again, if i have to, i have no problem doing so, just would like to know more information.
Thanks again guys
~Fitzy

 

[jdragunas]

Well, cc has a habit of getting dirty quickly, which is why most people love sand better. It also looks better.
You have to have proper lighting for anemones, and those lighting setups normally run anywhere from $400 - $700 or more... Anemones need the best lighting, so that's why it's so expensive. You can have other corals that require lower lighting, and a lighting setup like that could run you anywhere from #100 - $400.
when you add the LR, try to put it directly on the glass bottom (so move the cc aside and place the rock on the glass) this makes for a more steady aquascape, so you'll avoid rock tumbles in the future.
You should really wait til the end of the cycle to add anything living, and if i were you, i'd catch those damsels and take them back to the fish store. They're really agressive, and when you add other fish, they'll get very territorial and bully the new additions.
Good Luck!!!

 

[devildog01]

Trust me, take the CC out now, and put sand in. I did my tank with CC and hate it! Now that my tank is all established and everything-its a year old, I have to take out 100 pounds of LR so I can take the CC out and put sand in. Do it now, while its not such a hassle...I know I wish I would have.

 

[pfitz44]

Is there any benifit going to sand?? or is it just for looks?? If i do switch to sand, can i just vac up the cc, remove the fish and heep them in a bucket, pour the sand in and let it all settle? When adding the LR, should i just start stacking it, or is there some sort of base rock i should use? And when i do get anemone, will these put there fuut on the LR or so i need to get something special? Also, with the LR, should i onlg get "Reef Safe" Fish?? With the anemone??
I am going to pick up "A Conscientious Marine Aquarist" tonight, and read that wile the tank is cycling.
Again, you guys are great! and i appriciate all the help!
~Fitzy

 

[wax32]

Once you read that book you will see the benefits of sand. And the book explains how to put sand in the tank if I remember correctly. But yes, basically like you said.
Add live rock straight onto your sand, usually I put a few small pieces at the bottom and then bigger ones on top of them so a lot of rock doesn't cover the sand making the sand useless in those areas.
The anemone will figure out where it wants to go, you don't need to do anything special, but remember: that's at least 6 months away.

 

[jdragunas]

Actually, when you put your rock in, put it directly on the glass, so you don't get rock tumbles later. The anemone will decide where he wants to be, then plant his foot, most likely on the sandy bottom of the tank. This is another reason you don't want cc. CC will cut up your anemone and other bottom-dwelling fish you may get, which could cause infections, and possibly deaths...

 

[pfitz44]

Ok So i got soem live rock this weekend... only a little to start of. Its about 10 lbs worht (Not cheep!)
But what im currious about is that after i put the rock in, my specific gravity fell down quite a bit, and the amonia spiked. After all is said and done, 3 of the 4 damsels have died, and the remaining one doesnt look to good. I know htis is good b/c the damsels suck anyways, but the drop in specific gravity is what worried me a litte. If anyhting, i would have thought the SG would have gone up (Water Evap)??? Can anyone shead some light on this subject?? Also, is this prob the amonia spike for the start of the cycle?? I dont hav ethe test readings infront of me, they are at home. If they will help, then i can post them when i get home.
Attached is the updated pic. I think im gonna leave the CC in for now. When i u/g, ill put sand in that one and take the gravel out of this one then (Or maybe when all my fish die!)
~Fitzy

 

[jdragunas]

ok, first of all, congrats!!!
Secondly, it's not a surprise the damsels died. The sudden spike in ammonia is what killed them, and the fourth will die shortly. You shouldn't add any other living things to the tank until your cycle is completed.
Thirdly... as for the SG, there's no reason it should've dropped unless you did a water change with fresh water. What are you using to measure the SG? A hydrometer or refractometer. If you're using a swing-arm hydrometer, there are a few things you should know about them. When you put the water in, you have to make sure no air bubbles at all are attached to the "arm". If you haven't checked for that in the past, that's probably why it's reading different now. Your reading from before was probably off for that specific reason i just listed.
Fourthly, the ammonia spike is a good thing, and is the beginnning of your cycle. Next, your ammonia will begin to drop, and your nitrites will rise. Then your nitrites will drop as your nitrates rise. When your ammonia and nitrites are both 0, that's the end of your cycle.

Fifthly, email me: jennldragunas@comcast.net

 

[pfitz44]

So... first for the good news....
I tested the water yesterday. Ammoina was .5, and nitrates and nitrites were both 0. so this is good, right??? Salt was still a little low, so ive been adding more in slowly not to shock the remaining fish and damsel.
The bad news...
the pH was down to 7.5-7.8!! I added some pH buffer, and am going to retest tonight. However, thismorning wen i turned the ligh ton, the fish was out swimming around and the srimp was running around the tank like it was his job!! It looks like everything might be going better... right???
Thoughts appriciated!!
~Fitzy

 

[wax32]

Don't add salt directly to your tank to raise the specific gravity. Add saltwater when you top off evaporation instead of freshwater until your salinity is where it needs to be (this will take a few days).
Your pH is down because of the ammonia cycle that has started in your tank. Let things run their course and don't put anymore chemicals in your tank.

 

[jdragunas]

ammonia has nothing to do with ph, so that's not why it's down. Did you test ph after the tank lights were off, though?
PH, calcium, and alkalinity are all directly related, so if your ph is down, that can indicate there's a problem with your calcium and/or alk. You need to test calcium and alk. before adding anything to your tank. A buffer will raise the alk, but if your calcium is down, that's not going to fix the problem. Always find the root of the problem before adding anything to your tank, or you may end up with more problems than in the beginning!!!
And you have other fish in the tank as well??? See if you can take them back for store credit or something, because it's very cruel to have fish in the tank during your cycle. If they won't take the fish back, make sure you test ammonia every day, and do water changes to keep your ammonia below 1.0. That should help keep the fish alive.
as wax said, don't add salt directly to your tank, instead top off with saltwater. What is your SG?
Your ammonia looks good for the beginning of your cycle.

 

[pfitz44]

No.. no other fish.. just the damsel... i screwed that one up... sorry... didnt mean to give you guys a heart attack.... just the yellow tailed damsel and a cleaner shrimp. The lights were on on the tank, as they have always been. pH everytime i tested it was 8.2, except for this time. Im gonnat test it again today when i get back home to make sure its ok.
Dont worry... I'm not adding the salt directly... i am adding it in with RO water
~Fitzy

 

[jdragunas]

yeah, don't add any more buffer to it until you test for calcium and alkalinity. I highly doubt that cleaner shrimp will survive the cycle, so see if you can return it for store credit, or see if they will at least hold it until your cycle is over.
Good luck!!!

 

[pfitz44]

Ok.... Water Parameters... Including Ca2+ (Couldnt find an alk test kit....... figgures, huh?)
SG-1.019 (I know this is a little on the low side)
pH-8.2
Amm-0.5
Nitrate-0
Nitrite-0
Ca2+ 220pmm
I have no idea what the Ca2+ is suppost to be.... fish and shrimp are doing good!!
~Fitzy

 

[pfitz44]

Anyone?? Whats the Calcium suppost to be?? How do i adjust it if need be???

 

[pfitz44]

Ok... So this morning i got up and noticed that the smasel was back under the heater.... I tested the SG, and that is up now... little bit more tolerable level... I think it was at 1.022... cant remember though.. its written down at home... and i tested the pH b/c that seems to be a problem with my tank... that looked like it was between 8.0-8.2 So im lost... what would be causing my pH to keep decreasing??
Fitzy

 

[jdragunas]

well, your calcium should be at 450ppm.... so that's probably your problem. You need to purchase a calcium supplement (that is just pure calcium), and dose a little at a time to slowly raise your calcium levels. After you get that adjusted, you really do need to test alkalinity, so you should purchase an alk test kit. Once your alk and calcium are stable, your ph will follow.