GFCI Tripping????

[shawnlx86]

I have a 20amp circuit with the following hooked up to it:
lights- T5 550watts
heaters 500 and 300watt
return pump 200watts
protein skimmer 21watts
everytime my heaters kick on the outlet tripps. I calculated the outlet to handle 2400 watts with only running 1800 to be safe, which I am under. A coworker told me to look into a timed delay? gfci. Has anybody ever heard of this or have any suggestions?
Thanks, Shawn

 

[gwh57]

Not all outlets are created equal. Just because it is rated for something doesn't mean that it always be correctly rated. Some of your tank equipment may also be improperly labeled. The heater may be pulling more "startup" watts that what it is labeled as "normal usage". I also think that most electrical info I have read indicates that you should only load a receptical with about 3/4 of what it is rated for. I am also not an electrician. JMO.

 

[gwh57]

You may also have a defective heater.

 

[shawnlx86]

Originally Posted by gwh57
. I also think that most electrical info I have read indicates that you should only load a receptical with about 3/4 of what it is rated for. I am also not an electrician. JMO.

I was thinking the same thing-1800 watts would be 75% of the load on that recepticle and I'm under that, I think I might try hooking one of the heaters on another circuit and one on the current and see if that helps.

 

[baloo6969]

Honestly from an electrical perspective, those things can handle many more watts, but it's the amperage you must be concerned about...especially with GFI's. if your pulling 50% of the rated amount through the outlet, your good, anything over 70% and it's just not a good idea...reason being is that voltage fluctuates, and it can spike up and down... Plus when things POP on, like when the ballasts for those t5's, or the heaters, they can SPIKE in voltage it's called kickbacking.
and since it's poping off, it means the GFI is working.
Try splitting the load accross 2 outlets on the same line, but on 2 different GFI's.

 

[slugg3r]

GFCI don't generally pop because of too much wattage, that is what your circuit breaker does. They pop because you have a ground fault. Try just the two heaters and if it pops one of your heaters is leaking current.
Either way I would recommend splitting. 1800 watts at times could pull almost 20 amps of current which is the edge for general household wiring.

 

[shawnlx86]

Originally Posted by baloo6969
Try splitting the load accross 2 outlets on the same line, but on 2 different GFI's.
I did this and it may be coincidence but, gfci recepticals have not popped and I've shut lights on and off numerous times and watched heaters kick on and off numerous times. So, where my tank is cycling I'm just gonna keep an eye on it for the next few weeks and see if problem goes away. Thanks

 

[baloo6969]

Originally Posted by SHAWNLX86
I did this and it may be coincidence but, gfci recepticals have not popped and I've shut lights on and off numerous times and watched heaters kick on and off numerous times. So, where my tank is cycling I'm just gonna keep an eye on it for the next few weeks and see if problem goes away. Thanks
it's no coincidence. goo gle "Sensitive voltage detector" and build one of these...then hook em all back up...then filp on and off the lights. you'll hear something

 

[scsinet]

If the GFI trips almost instantly when the heater comes on, you DEFINITELY have a heater causing a ground fault. Replacing the heater should solve your problem. .... you should do it as soon as possible.
As for the wattage... if you have a 20 amp circuit, you can handle 2400 watts safely. If you are under 1800 watts (which is 15 amps), you should have no safety issues at all with the circuit loading.
However, be aware that MOST GFIs are rated for 20 amps feedthrough (for outlets connected further down the circuit), but 15 amps is all that can be safely pulled through the front receptacles themselves. If your entire load is connected to the two receptacles on the front of the GFI, then be sure you have a GFI rated for that.
The easiest way to tell whether it's rated for 20 amps is by the appearance of the receptacles. The 20 amp rated GFIs have a "sideways T" shaped neutral slot, like the attached photo.
If you run more than 1800 watts from a GFI rated for 15 amps, while I doubt it would cause any serious problem, let's just say that if you built a house and an electrical inspector caught it, he'd make you change it. I wouldn't do it.

 

[shawnlx86]

Originally Posted by SHAWNLX86
I did this and it may be coincidence but, gfci recepticals have not popped and I've shut lights on and off numerous times and watched heaters kick on and off numerous times. So, where my tank is cycling I'm just gonna keep an eye on it for the next few weeks and see if problem goes away. Thanks
Well this morning, right back to square 1, when my lights are on and heaters kick in gfci popps (but when lights are off and heaters kick on and off gfci never pops).I dont understand why it is doing it this morning but last night everything was on for 8hrs with no problems. I guess I'm gonna run my heaters on a seperate circuit. I have a Reefkeeper II controller that I was trying to take advantage of controlling heaters-now I'll have to buy 2 controllers and just plug them in a diff. plug/circuit unless anyone has any diff. ideas.

 

[shawnlx86]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
If the GFI trips almost instantly when the heater comes on, you DEFINITELY have a heater causing a ground fault. Replacing the heater should solve your problem. .... you should do it as soon as possible.
As for the wattage... if you have a 20 amp circuit, you can handle 2400 watts safely. If you are under 1800 watts (which is 15 amps), you should have no safety issues at all with the circuit loading.
However, be aware that MOST GFIs are rated for 20 amps feedthrough (for outlets connected further down the circuit), but 15 amps is all that can be safely pulled through the front receptacles themselves. If your entire load is connected to the two receptacles on the front of the GFI, then be sure you have a GFI rated for that.
The easiest way to tell whether it's rated for 20 amps is by the appearance of the receptacles. The 20 amp rated GFIs have a "sideways T" shaped neutral slot, like the attached photo.
If you run more than 1800 watts from a GFI rated for 15 amps, while I doubt it would cause any serious problem, let's just say that if you built a house and an electrical inspector caught it, he'd make you change it. I wouldn't do it.
Sorry SCSInet I left my computer in the middle of typing my post and when I put it through yours was there. So, does it make sense that when my lights arent plugged in my heaters never pop the gfci outlets? My outlets don't have that t shape but I thought on the box it said it would handle 20amps- theyre a designer model. should I try switching them just to be on the safe side?

 

[almostclueless]

Get one thats ment to take 20 amps, or you could run another circut, from the switch board. either way, It would be a good idea. That, or something thats turning on (maybe heater?) is bad and tripping the gfi?

 

[killerbee181]

GFCI's don't trip from to many amps. They trip from a ground fault. I've melted gfci's on the job site without them tripping. Your breakers trip from to many amps. So if you have the correct size breaker and it's not tripping, then you don't have an amperage problem. You have a ground fault which means one of your devices is bad. Just cause it doesn't trip every time doesn't mean it's not bad just means it's not leaking enough juice at that time to trip the gfci. Also if you keep reseting your gfci over and over with a fault on it. It could eventually go bad and then it won't trip at all. Try unplugging one heater for a day and see if it trips then try the other and see if it trips. You'll just have to keep trying different things until you find it.

 

[scsinet]

That is strange... the lights having to be on for the heaters to trip the GFI.
For a GFI to trip you need two things:
1. A device which is capable of leaking electrical current to a ground path
2. A ground path to exist.
One could argue that the lights are the ground path and when they are off, the heaters do not have that path, but I've never seen a timer or switch that switches the ground connection on and off. If you are unplugging your lights, however, that may be your answer right there. Usually lights have a grounded reflector that may be forming your path.
Do you have a grounding probe? It's a pretty mandatory safety device (when used with a GFI). If you don't, install one and see if the heaters trip every time, even with the lights off. If they do, you've isolated the problem as being related to the heaters.
If the heaters still only trip when the lights are on, then I'd wonder if the GFI is being affected by harmonics. Electronic ballasts on lighting systems often confuse a GFI's circuitry and make them trip erroneously. If that is the case, I'd run a separate circuit for the LIGHTS (not the heaters), and run the lights off their own GFI.
Regardless of what you do, make sure everything you have remains on GFIs. Only if lights are on their own circuit and still trip GFIs do I advocate putting them in place without them (in this instance, there is no other option).

 

[shawnlx86]

So come to find out they are 15 amp gfi outlets. I can't believe my electrician did not notice. I went to lowes last night switched it for 20amp gfi's and have had no problems what so ever over the last 2 days. I will be hooking up a grounding probe this week when it comes in. Thanks for the help everybody, I'll let you know if any problems arise.