Google should be forced to but SOPA in their collective mouths...

[theclemsonkid]

See, this is why capitalism (to a lesser extent) and greed (to a much more prevalent extent) will ultimately be the downfall of western economics.
You have a multi-billion dollar company like Google spouting off about "Don't let the government censor the internet", or "SOPA will dance all over your first amendment rights". Really Google, really?
Here's the truth. SOPA will give the US Government the right to shut down websites that are in violation of copyright laws overseas by forcing places like Google, YouTube, Wikipedia and others to stop hosting these sites that are found in violation. Now you would think that most people would think "well that's good, pirated songs, prescription drugs, shoes, movies, music, etc are rightful property of their owners and they shouldn't have to give it away for free."
Fact is, if most people knew that's what it meant, they would be on board too and none of this would be a big deal. Then, you see Google and Wikipedia starting to act like the government is "big brother" to try and scare you into thinking the government is taking away your internet rights.
Bull$*&!
Google, who just so happens to make BILLIONS OF ANNUAL DOLLARS from hosting and advertising for tens of thousands of illicit websites, wants you to think it's about censoring your rights. The only thing they are worried about is losing a ton of money from shady websites that hock stolen goods.
It's no different than if someone started selling ripped CD's, counterfeit electronics, fake prescription drugs, etc in a brick and mortar store down the street from you. Google is nothing more than the landlord who is getting a monthly rent check from them. How long do you think the police would let that go on before they went in and shut it down? Exactly. It's the exact same thing happening online, but Google wants you to think that SOPA is the bad guy.
Shame on you Google, shame on you.

 

[dragonzim]

The bills basically force hosting companies to remove content based only a letter from the "offended" party. There is no court involvement. So, say you have a video that you shot up on Youtube or Facebook. You shot the video yourself, so you own it. Now lets say that there is a bottle of Coke in your video. Theroetically, Coca Cola can send a letter to Youtube or Facebook and have them be forced to remove your video since it is infringing on their trademark. The same would apply if you posted a video that had a song on in the background.
Some more info...
http://gizmodo.com/5877000/what-is-sopa
http://lifehacker.com/5860205/all-about-sopa-the-bill-thats-going-to-cripple-your-internet
http://mashable.com/2012/01/16/white-house-sopa-petition/
http://www.clickondetroit.com/money/SOPA-explained-What-it-is-and-why-it-matters/-/1719116/8263688/-/hasulq/-/

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451224
The bills basically force hosting companies to remove content based only a letter from the "offended" party. There is no court involvement. So, say you have a video that you shot up on Youtube or Facebook. You shot the video yourself, so you own it. Now lets say that there is a bottle of Coke in your video. Theroetically, Coca Cola can send a letter to Youtube or Facebook and have them be forced to remove your video since it is infringing on their trademark. The same would apply if you posted a video that had a song on in the background.
Some more info...
http://gizmodo.com/5877000/what-is-sopa
http://lifehacker.com/5860205/all-about-sopa-the-bill-thats-going-to-cripple-your-internet
http://mashable.com/2012/01/16/white-house-sopa-petition/
http://www.clickondetroit.com/money/SOPA-explained-What-it-is-and-why-it-matters/-/1719116/8263688/-/hasulq/-/
I don't understand why people want to focus on stuff like that. In theory, if you use someone's song, you should either pay for it, or at least give credit to the copyright holder. I used to be in the music industry in the mid 2000's, and I can tell you for every "Big greedy record company" out there, you've got thousands of songwriters and singers who haven't made a dime in the past five years from their work because the internet gives it away for free 80% of the time.
I don't know what you do for a living, but I would be willing to bet you like getting paid for it!
And for the record, Coke has the legal right to do that RIGHT NOW if they so chose. SOPA isn't about Coke shutting down videos on Youtube. It's about shutting down rogue sites that sell and manufacture counterfeit goods.
I don't know why people buy into the Google driven hype machine about their freedoms being taken away. It's scare tactics 101

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451226
I don't understand why people want to focus on stuff like that. In theory, if you use someone's song, you should either pay for it, or at least give credit to the copyright holder. I used to be in the music industry in the mid 2000's, and I can tell you for every "Big greedy record company" out there, you've got thousands of songwriters and singers who haven't made a dime in the past five years from their work because the internet gives it away for free 80% of the time.
I don't know what you do for a living, but I would be willing to bet you like getting paid for it!
And for the record, Coke has the legal right to do that RIGHT NOW if they so chose. SOPA isn't about Coke shutting down videos on Youtube. It's about shutting down rogue sites that sell and manufacture counterfeit goods.
I don't know why people buy into the Google driven hype machine about their freedoms being taken away. It's scare tactics 101
The biggest issue seems to be that there is no oversight or due process whatsoever. Check out the section titled "The Vigilante Provision" on the below site
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/how-pipa-and-sopa-violate-white-house-principles-supporting-free-speech
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/18/sopa-blackout-internet-censorship_n_1211905.html

 

[theclemsonkid]

While I agree that there needs to be less vague language in the laws, I think these big companies and their billions of dollars, are trying to get Joe Six-pack to focus on the little things and fringe effects of what SOPA and PIPA are trying to combat.
It's kind of like being anti vaccination because you are worried about the 1 in 1,000,000 people who are affected negatively, but you somehow ignore the 999,999 people who were helped. If you bust your hump to create something and you have the intellectual property, you should be able to protect it. Period.
And I also don't get how this is going to "hurt" the local economies. If I can no longer go steal music for free, buy cheap knock off electronics and purses, etc; then I would have to actually go into a real store with employees and spend real money. How does that not help stimulate things?

 

[dragonzim]

The fact remains, that with the current language of the bills, due process and court intervention are completely sidestepped and any company that feels their copyrights are being infringed on can, with basically just a letter, have an entire site shut down and not just have the offending content removed. Many tech companies are coming out against this because the powers of the bill allow for a change to the basic way that the Internet works by modifying and blacklisting DNS records. This is pretty much how China "polices" the Internet and blocks content that they dont want their citizens to have access to.

 

[mantisman51]

+1 Zim. It's bad law. It gives corporation the right to dictate what is allowed on the internet with the enforcement of the Federal government. This gives so much power to the government and corporations, it makes "net neutrality" look like child's play. Where "fairness" would have been used to silence those with whom bureaucrats disagreed with net neutrality, it will use very ambiguous definitions of copyright protection to silence those with whom they disagree. If Sony Entertainment has a problem with a Ukranian website, THEY, not the government, should spend their money and go to Ukraine and sue the website. But why spend a few of their hundreds of billions of $ when they can use the government to do their dirty work? The law of unintended consequences has taught us this will be used by power-grabbing bureaucrats to silence ANYONE they disagree with and have no court or elected officials to answer to. That, my friend, is censorship of the worst kind.

 

[xandrew245x]

I agree something should be done to get rid of a lot of the illegal activity that goes on over the internet, however I think once the government gets one foot in the door, it will get way out of hand. They will be able to cover up any ones opinion that they please, and only allow us to see what information THEY want us to see. I don't think that is fair what so ever, our first amendment is what is really at stake here. As for the music industry goes, many new bands and artist use the free services on the internet to get their start, and many well known bands, believe it or not, make more money when someone pirates their content. Say for an example, this is a personal example, I pirate a lot of new music to see if I like it, if I find out a like it, I'll end up buying new albums or new songs they come out with, I tell my friends about it, and they do the same. Internet is one of the most vast sources of advertisment, and I think if this bill was to pass, the majority of that would vanish, and it would just hurt the economy in general. A lot of people pirate/buy knock off items because they can't afford the real things, I know I can't afford to be spending 10 dollars an album just for music, or 20 some dollars for a movie!

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by xandrew245x http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451282
I agree something should be done to get rid of a lot of the illegal activity that goes on over the internet, however I think once the government gets one foot in the door, it will get way out of hand. They will be able to cover up any ones opinion that they please, and only allow us to see what information THEY want us to see. I don't think that is fair what so ever, our first amendment is what is really at stake here. As for the music industry goes, many new bands and artist use the free services on the internet to get their start, and many well known bands, believe it or not, make more money when someone pirates their content. Say for an example, this is a personal example, I pirate a lot of new music to see if I like it, if I find out a like it, I'll end up buying new albums or new songs they come out with, I tell my friends about it, and they do the same. Internet is one of the most vast sources of advertisment, and I think if this bill was to pass, the majority of that would vanish, and it would just hurt the economy in general. A lot of people pirate/buy knock off items because they can't afford the real things, I know I can't afford to be spending 10 dollars an album just for music, or 20 some dollars for a movie!
So on one hand you say that if you hear free music that you like on the internet, then you'll end up buying new albums...but then you say "I know I can't afford to be spending 10 dollars an album just for music". This is my problem. For a few of my good friends who are working musicians, you're the kind of person who uses them for their creative content and they get nothing in return. How would you feel if you only got 10% of your current paycheck because people didn't have the money to support whatever it was you did?

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451285
For a few of my good friends who are working musicians, you're the kind of person who uses them for their creative content and they get nothing in return. How would you feel if you only got 10% of your current paycheck because people didn't have the money to support whatever it was you did?
Did anyone besides me see this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451220
See, this is why capitalism (to a lesser extent)... ...will ultimately be the downfall of western economics.

 

[mantisman51]

If a "creative" person uses the open web to get their "art" out, then they don't deserve to be paid. Anyone can put their songs, paintings, blogs, etc on a paid site and people only access it by subscription. If someone uses their intellectual property without permission, we already have laws and courts designed to handle it. Power concentrated in the hands of a few bureaucrats who oversee the whole web would never be abused, would it?

 

[xandrew245x]

I should clarify, I bought music when I stilled live at home, I moved out about a month ago, and music is the last thing I really want to be buying! As for the whole money thing, I work for my families business, money is the last thing I think about when I work! The main problem is greed and that's the truth.

 

[xandrew245x]

Quote:
For a few of my good friends who are working musicians, you're the kind of person who uses them for their creative content and they get nothing in return. How would you feel if you only got 10% of your current paycheck because people didn't have the money to support whatever it was you did?
I also have two things to say about this
1.working for a small family business, you do your work, but you don't always get paid, a lot of times you don't get paid for the same reason, people don't have the money to pay! So yes, I understand that whole situations, life isn't fair, its the plain truth, and in my position, nothing can be done about it, its the sad truth.
2. It may not be that were only getting 10% of our paycheck, but do we not pay out a crazy amount of tax every week, just to support people who half the time abuse the system?
Many bands don't go into the music industry for the money, I know this from experience, i used to be in a band, the band is still doing well and advancing. Most bands play music because they love it, and they want to share it, is this not true?
GREED, is the issue, they shouldn't care how much money they make, they should care who is hearing their music/seeing their movies!
This is just my opinion I know many won't agree
And mantic, I 100% agree with you, one group having that much control...its going to get abused, completley abused, we have already had so many of our rights taken away from us, and here comes another.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451319
If a "creative" person uses the open web to get their "art" out, then they don't deserve to be paid. Anyone can put their songs, paintings, blogs, etc on a paid site and people only access it by subscription. If someone uses their intellectual property without permission, we already have laws and courts designed to handle it. Power concentrated in the hands of a few bureaucrats who oversee the whole web would never be abused, would it?
If I didn't know any better i'd swear to God you were 80 years old. You seriously think that "If a "creative" person uses the open web to get their "art" out, then they don't deserve to be paid." I'd like you to read that back aloud. By that logic, the building you are currently in should have never been built, because the architect was just an artist putting his design out there. The engineer who created the computer you are typing on just wanted to better the world. Hell, why not just have a communist society where everyone does whatever they are good at for the advancement of society and don't ask for anything in return.
Musicians are real people doing a real job, and hope to make real money. That's pretty ballsy for you to take an industry that had tens of thousands of people who bust their hump to produce music, and saying they don't deserve to be paid, all because some middle class suburban chump can steal their music for nothing...
It's stealing whether you like it or not. And it needs to be stopped.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451290
Did anyone besides me see this?
I stand by that. Because the people at Google (the evil capitalists) are straight up lying so they can keep profiting from selling their advertising and hosting to these illicit companies. What's not to get about that?

 

[mantisman51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451341
If I didn't know any better i'd swear to God you were 80 years old. You seriously think that "If a "creative" person uses the open web to get their "art" out, then they don't deserve to be paid." I'd like you to read that back aloud. By that logic, the building you are currently in should have never been built, because the architect was just an artist putting his design out there. The engineer who created the computer you are typing on just wanted to better the world. Hell, why not just have a communist society where everyone does whatever they are good at for the advancement of society and don't ask for anything in return.
Musicians are real people doing a real job, and hope to make real money. That's pretty ballsy for you to take an industry that had tens of thousands of people who bust their hump to produce music, and saying they don't deserve to be paid, all because some middle class suburban chump can steal their music for nothing...
It's stealing whether you like it or not. And it needs to be stopped.
If an architect draws up plans and puts them in a public place, then he/she won't get paid either. So that is why he/she draws up plans and only shares with those who pay for his service. I pay a yearly fee to listen to music on Grooveshark and I have bought(and bought again) on tape, then CD every single song I load on my MP3 player. I believe firmly in paying for the music and movies I like. However, there are already copyright laws and it is up to the artists and creators of copyrighted work to enforce the copyright. This is a government/big business boondoggle that makes a few bureaucrats the ultimate arbitrator of internet content. That is communist.

 

[mantisman51]

p.s. The link at Craigslist states 80% of Americans agree with me, so I'm in good company; present company withstanding.

 

[xandrew245x]

Once again matis made a great point, there are already plenty of laws in place to prevent pirating, and a pretty hefty price to pay if your caught doing it. I think giving the government all this power will just create a world where we only hear what the government wants us to hear, and could simply block out someones content because of their opinion! It sure sounds suspicious, sounds more like they are secretly trying to prevent a revolution(which would easily grow and be fueled by the free services on the internet) I use spotify for my music, and if this law is pass, I could see that, a long with many other things like it vanishing.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451343
I stand by that. Because the people at Google (the evil capitalists) are straight up lying so they can keep profiting from selling their advertising and hosting to these illicit companies. What's not to get about that?
lol, this is why people shouldn't vote you don't have a clue what you just argued. You out of one side of your mouth say capitalism is going to destroy the country, and on the other say how would you like if you didn't get what you worked for that is the whole idea of capitalism...

 

[theclemsonkid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/390034/google-should-be-forced-to-but-sopa-in-their-collective-mouths#post_3451464
lol, this is why people shouldn't vote you don't have a clue what you just argued. You out of one side of your mouth say capitalism is going to destroy the country, and on the other say how would you like if you didn't get what you worked for that is the whole idea of capitalism...
A capitalist mentality where you get paid a fair wage is one thing... A greedy capitalist society where you willingly break the law to make money hand over first is something completely different...