Got a tank recently

[ashenwolf]

Hey All. I'm new to the board. Well, here's my story, I just wanted some tips or pointers with my new hobby I got a 30 gallon tank from my grandpa after he died. He used to have a freshwater tank but i took what i could use and now have it set up for salt water. I went to the ept store and got salt, some decorations, the ground filter, a live rock and tons of crushed coral/shells from the store for the bottom. So i had all that stuff, and a light and two regular filters left from my grandpa.
I started my tank out with 6 damsel fish, to start teh system in the tank until the ph level and amonia and all taht was where it should be. Then yesturday it was all were it should be and so the pet store lady told me today i could bring in the left over damsels (i only had three remaining since one decided to be a murderer) and trade them in for a bigger more exotic fish to settle my tastes. So today I brought home a spiny box puffer fish. He caught my eye because he was rather odd looking and was pretty energetic. Now that i have him, the pet shop lady said that i would be most likely able to get another fish to add next week, if chemicals are all still in balance. I have a fish in midn i want to get, a Lyretail Wrasse , but I was wondering if there would be a problem witht he two together or if anyone had any better ideas.
Also I was wondering, do Spiny box fish eat algea or other things off the glass or is mine just wierd? Cuz Smooge( that's what i named him ) swims up and down the glass and drags his lips on the glass and looks like he's enjoying a meal or something. Just wondering.
Sorry for the long post, I'm new and have lots on my mind. Feel free to give me any tips, tricks, hints, questions, comments, anything.

 

[slothy]

puffers like meaty meals (brine/shrimp), and a 30 gallon is kinda small to me for a puffer..

 

[carrie1429]

Sorry to go off topic but how long has your tank been setup for? And I agree that your tank size is too small for a spiny puffer, you could have him for a while, but they do get pretty big. And I would have to say no on the wrasser because from what I've read they get to be 8 inches and a 30 gal is too small.

 

[ashenwolf]

Yeah, i noticed that when i was reading up on them online. But the pet shop lady, who seemed to know a lot about fish, actually reccomended the puffer being a good one to start with since it's energetic.
And I got him on brine shrimp. How often should I feed him? I was feeding the damsels every other day, so should that be the same for him?

 

[carrie1429]

I woudn't always trust your LFS, you never know if they are just trying to make a sale, there are a lot of them that do this kind od thing a lot, give you a wrong startter fish. IMO a puffer isn't a very good fish to start with, as far as I know they can be sometimes difficult to feed. But I would try to feed him every day to every other day.

 

[bluemarlin]

This seems terrible to me. A spiny puffer as your first fish? It has been my experience that puffers are sometimes very tough to feed. I would suspect that your puffer is not eating algae on the glass but he is trying to get out. If I read your post correctly, you just cycled your tank. I think that puffers need a well established tank to survive. Even though he is the only fish in the tank at best you have 25 gallons of water in there and that is not a lot! The biolode of a puffer is very high. For now I would stick with just the puffer (since you already have it) and try to get it to eat. Watch your water quality very closely. Good luck and I agree to never trust 100% in what a LFS person tells you. Sad but true.

 

[ashenwolf]

Hmph. It does kinda seem that she was just trying to go for a sell. Since i did read online that they are in teh difficult catergory for caring. I have water testing kits and such, so I'll try and check everything out as much as possible. I will also try seeing if he'll eat today. I've had this tank set up for about 3 weeks or so now I'm pretty sure.

 

[ashenwolf]

Alright. I was thinking about taking that big step myself. With that in mind, after i return the puffer, what should i use for the bottom instead of crushed coral, since you seemed to be hinting that it's not the greatest. I do have one live rock, with a 30 gallon tank should i have more then that? I think it was about a pound and a half. I do have a powerhead in there which is atached to the under the gravel filter. With that i have two mechanical filters hanging from the back side of the tank.
I guess i jumped into the getting the fish part too soon. But the chemicals were all right and the tank worked fine with the damsels, but those are tougher fish.
Is there a way that i can keep my current set up but just wait a little longer till i get fish? It's rather frustrating to go through the week of getting everything together to get the tank set up, get the water in there, make sure everythings running right and so forth then wait three weeks with damsels and return them for a bigger fish only to find out i ahve to start all over. But i do want to house a good home for whatever fish i end up staying with, it doesn't feel great to buy fisha nd care for them and see them upset.

 

[carrie1429]

Originally posted by BlueMarlin
Good luck and I agree to never trust 100% in what a LFS person tells you. Sad but true.
Hmmm, then I guess you should never take my advice huh?
There are some good LFS people out there, its just hard sometimes to know what ones are knoledgable if you are a new hobbyist.

 

[ashenwolf]

I've been reading up on tanks more on other sites and forums and have foudn that people aren't really complaining about crushed coral. But i have been reading the UGF aren't the greatest since they are easily clogged and whatnot. What would bea good alternative to this? I have also heard that fish only grow to the size of their environment int eh way that they won't get any bigger then the environment will handle. Is that true (in your opinion)?
Right now I have a blanket covering my tank since it seems that the puffer is a bit skiddish to movements and me watching him or being to close. Could his evergoing tries to "get out" be because he's just scared of everything? The blanket has seemed to calm him a bit. I tried feeding him earlier but he didn't seem interested or to even notice, he was to busy swimming up and down the glass.
I'm thinking about going to a different pet store in the area and asking their opinions on things, amybe hearing from more and more sources will get me a better idea. I have been doing alot more research on marine tanks in general to help my knowledge and to help me find a resolution to my problem.
As I figured it may help, I made a list of my equipment so that people can look and see. Here is what I have:
30 gal tank w/wooden stand and top.
1 bag (can't rememmber how many pounds but it fills about a 1/2 inch on the bottom) crushed coral
(1) UGF by Undertow
(2) AquaClear Duel Filtration systems
(1) Aquaclear Powerhead 402
(1) 30" 120volt 20watt 60 hz Aquarium Florescent light
Various fake plants and a backdrop poster
2-3 pounds of live rock
and One Spiny Box Puffer Fish

 

[ashenwolf]

Oh, my dad jsut brought up an idea. Not sure if this is like way off the wall or stupid or anything but i thought I'd ask. Since I live right on the beach, would i be able to take my own live rock and/or sand for a DSB from the ocean floor? Or is that just completely stupid?

 

[shadow678]

The idea that fish will only gro wto meet their environment is no longer accepted. Fish, especially marine fish, will grow to their genetically-determined length as an adult, and if this exceeds their allowed space, they will simply stress out and die. It would be like you trying to live in a cave that was only 2 feet tall. You would certainly grow taller than that, but it would definately have negative health effects. The sand idea is not stupid, however it will also not work. Beach sand is not the reef sand that is referred to in aquarium keeping. Reef sand is coral skeleton that has been broken down into very fine particles. It still contains beneficial bacteria that help to filter your water. Beach sand is not alive and contains no bacteria, although it may contain some pretty nasty pollutants that may or may not kill anything you put in your tank. lol All the advice given before is pretty good advice, although I would suggest going with 1.5 pounds of rock per gallon of water, to make sure it is adequate for proper filtration. Also, if you plan to keep any kinds of corals or other inverts, you will need to upgrade your lighting to a much more intense light system than the standard lights provided. HTH and good luck!

 

[ashenwolf]

Welp, I have done lots of research, took into mind all the advice thats been given and have made a decision. I've talked with my parents about it and their with me. Tomorrow I will return Smooge to the pet store, maybe i'll get some damsels again to keep the cycle going, or maybe a clown fish. I have done research on fish types online (This time BEFORE i buy the fish ) and have found some fish that are not too expensive, are easy -moderate to take care of, are peaceful and are capable to live in a 30 gallon tank. Also, I am going to visit a few different pet stores in the area and ask some questions and see what they have to offer.
One big question I have is *What would i get in replacement of my UGF?* Since people have said here and i have read that their are a big hassle and aren't teh greatest, what would be the thing to get instead of that?
Also ( I know, I ask alot of questions ), would i be able to put LS in my tank ontop of the CC? If so, would i be able to put the sand only in say half the tank? And since obviously i will be needing ALOT more LR, what are the best things to look for when shopping for LR? Finally, do you guys reccomend or not reccomend any inverts? Thanks, I'm glad people are willing to answer all my questions

 

[shadow678]

lol Don't be upset about asking, that is what we're here for. If you go with live sand, you don't need to replace your UGF with anything, simply take the CC and UGF out, and put life sand in the bottom of the tank, straight on the glass. Trash will only collect on the top layer of the sand, and will be picked clean by your cleanup crew, i.e. hermit crabs and snails. Many people have said that you should not mix CC and sand, and others have said they have and have never had any problem with it. This may be one of those personal choice things. Shopping for live rock is mostly simply what looks like you would like it in your tank. You want rock that has good color on it, lots of corraline algae growth. Rock that has any plants growing on it can be a bonus. Some large pieces to use as bases, and then some medium to small pieces to stack around it works nicely. Having or not having inverts is dependant on how much money you are willing to invest in lighting and such. Some inverts require more lighting than others. Mushrooms are a good, low-light animal that are very hardy and look very nice. they also will propogate themselves, which is nice considering how much specimens cost in this hobby. lol If you want to upgrade your lighting to very intense light, you can begin carrying corals. Again, some require more light than others. I would suggest getting a good coral reference book and reading up on them before you decide to do anything in that area, to decide what types you want, if any at all.

 

[ashenwolf]

So your saying i can take out my UGF and CC all together and just put in live sand and be okay without any extra filters besides the two i have? That's cool. wish i woulda known that earlier, then i coulda saved money and grueling hours of rinsing the CC and just have sand
Would the best way to go about with this exchange be to take Smooge back and restart the tank with LS and wait for the cycling process to go through wiht damsels again? Or is there a way aroudn the whole starting over thing?
As for the clean up crew, i was thinking dwarf hermit crabs and snails? Would my best bet for my tank and them be to upgrade my lighting and get more LR? I'm not sure if i'm ready to do the coral yet though, since i've read that it is more for experts. Whats your opinions?

 

[shadow678]

To go with the modified Berlin system, yes you will remove the UGF and CC and put down a sand bed of 4-6", add enough rock to make it 1.75 pounds/gal of water, and a good protein skimmer. The rock should begin the cycle, but you can also toss in a couple of raw, dead shrimp from your local grocery store to help it go. After a few days, you can take the shrimp out to keep it from smelling. The damsels should go back to your LFS, as they are not needed and the cycle is very stressful on them. Hermits and snails are a good cleanup crew, very basic and will control your wastes, but add them only after the cycle is over and you have a fish or two in there, they have to have fish waste and algae to eat. You don't need to upgrade your light too much for rock, as the rock itself only needs light for the corraline algae. While you wait to let your tank cycle settle(4-6 weeks) read up on corals and inverts, and then you can decide if you want to go that route. I would, simply because it makes the tank so wonderful, but you will have to make sure the tank is all very stable and you will have to upgrade your lighting quite a bit. Mushrooms and such will need about 2 watts of light per gallon of water. Soft corals, some hard corals, and most anemones will need 4-5 watts per gallon, and clams and some corals such as acroporas will need lots of light, 7-10watts per gallon. Corals and clams also require added calcium, which can be accomplished with a kalkwasser drip. It is a mix that you use to replace water that is lost due to evaporation. It is pretty simple to use and has been the proven leader in calcium supplement for many years.

 

[ashenwolf]

My dad was interested in me getting into a coral tank, but i've read and heard it was more for experts so i steered away. But maybe once i am waiting for the system to go through I can make my final decision. If i did go with corals I would also have to find fish that are coral compatible. Do you have any suggestions for fish if i do go the coral route? I like colorful fish, ones that won't kill all my others and aren't extremely expensive I'll have to do more research, i'm using my art sketchbook for keeping notes hehe How much do skimmers usually cost and what would be the best to get for my tank?
I'm shooting questions once you give me answers, sorry but i'm devouring information form you guys and i get more questions form every reply you give

 

[shadow678]

As far as skimmers go, there are so many options out there, but you really get what you pay for with these. Amiracle makes a pretty decent counter-current skimmer that isn't too expensive, around $50. As for fish, a small toby would be really cute. A clownfish, as there are many different types to choose from. Perhaps a dwarf lionfish species. A royal gramma adds a brilliant color. Any of the fairy wrasses, although these can be quite expensive unless you find them on a big sale. A zebra dart goby, also called a bar goby, would be a great choice. A firefish is really good. A yellow assessor or blue assessor would also be really good. Pearly-headed jawfish would make an interesting addition. Any of the cardinalfishes, such as the banggai, which has a very interesting sohpisticated look to it. Coral beauty angels are fantastic, and could probably be ok with doscile tankmates. The possibilities are astounding.

 

[ashenwolf]

Wonderful! I will surely check into all these coral compadible fish! Hopefully i'll get some LS and more LR very soon and get this fish tnak started on a better level, more informed level atleast Thanks for the help, be prepared that I will prolly have more everflowing amounts of questions soon. I'll keep you guys updated with how the cycle is going with the sand and everything and wether I decide to go with coral or not.
Oh, BTW, when i do the DSB and such, will I need to get the skimmer RIGHT AWAY or can i wait maybe a few days so i can get the money for it? I'm only a high school student and i currently only work weekends so it takes a little bit to get money sometimes.

 

[shadow678]

No problem, you're welcome. It's actually suggested that you go without a skimmer for a week or so after putting your LR in, so that the waste from the rock dieoff is allowed to decompose and be broken down into ammonia to start the cycle, so you can wait until you can afford one, but I would get one on before adding any fish. Good luck and welcome to the hobby. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.