grouper problem

[douglas]

Beth, I hope this makes it to you, you seem very knowledgeable on fish dis. I have a panther grouper that is about 8 to 9 inches... He has been raised on mainly frozen shrimp, so he does not eat any of his smaller tankmates. Until about 2 weeks ago, he has never had a problem, but then he quit eating and his personality totally changed. To try to make a long story, short, the first other abnormality was sporadic labored breathing, which now has continued as well as his not eating. Till now this was the only indication that something was wrong, but today all of a sudden he has developed a very red area around his entire mouth. Nothing else on his body is abnormal, no wounds, growths, spots, or anything externally.... Is there anything that groupers are known to get that would fit into this description. Please help me with some input into what I might be able to try to help this guy.... There are many other tankmates and no one else has anything abnormal going on... I have checked the water parameters and everything is within my usual and normal limits. Nothing has happened to stress him!!! What can I do?
Thank you very much for your time.
Doug

 

[aquaknight]

Just for clarification, "frozen shrimp," meaning frozen white/table shrimp? Shell on or off? Cooked or raw?

 

[douglas]

precooked, shell off, as in cocktail shrimp........ from grocery store, not from the wild, well not from the wild as in me personally harvesting

 

[aquaknight]

Panther groupers are probably the hardiest fish of all the fish we kept in aquaria. I hope this guy can weather the storm.
Is the red area, just that, discolored? Or is it raised at all/pimply/etc?
It sounds like a nutritional deficiency of some type from eating only one type of food. In the wild these guys eat all sorts of things. I would start adding variety to his diet, clams, scallops, silversides, squid, etc.
Good thread to read up on foods for aggressive fish;
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/362353/what-are-you-serving-for-supper-tonight
Additionally, as you'll see in that thread, it's never advisable to feed precooked food to our fish. We have no exact way of telling what method they used to cook the foods, or what types of oils/seasonings/etc they might have add to the food that can be potentially harmful.

 

[beth]

No fish can thrive on a single food source.
Your fish sounds like its got a bacterial infection. Do you have a cycled quarantine tank? Antibiotic treatment with Maracyn Two is needed.

 

[douglas]

The red area is just that, nothing raised, pimply or any other description, but actually it is so red, that I would describe it as looking like he is bleeding out within the skin, but it is no other area besides the entire area around his mouth. I have checked out his gills and they are totally normal looking, not extra red and no parasites attached. I have never ever seen anything like it in dealing with fish for over 20 years without a break in the hobby.... I have always had a love of marine life, wanted to be a marine biologist, but my great-grandfather, grandfather and my dad all were pharmacist; so guess where I ended up in college, with many regrets now, but the profession has ben very financially rewarding. Too bad we only get to live one life.. Anyway as far as the feeding of the grouper, I just continued on with what the person that gave him to me had brought him up on. He had him from a 2 inch fish to the 8 inch when he had to get rid of him. Of coarse I know nothing really can replace a varied diet and all of my other marine life gets fed a different diet every day of the week. But I will start trying to get him to eat other foods as soon as he will eat again,,, but that is part of his current problem, it has been over 2 weeks since he has eaten anything, he always came to the surface and took the shrimp out of my hand directly, and now he only turns away from food like someone with a very bad hangover looks at food the next morning... I have already put him in a quarantine tank but until Beths suggestion, I had no idea what to try treating him with. I will begin that treatment, but if you have any other suggestions, I am all ears. But my one question about possibly being a bacterial infection, why would there be no other signs for the last 2 weeks that he quit eating and only occasionally having very labored breathing, and now in just the last 3 days has started "bleeding out" in just the area around his mouth. Almost to me like in humans, the final days of leukemia, or some other form of a out of control bleeding disorder.... To me it is just very confusing.... Do marine fish get leukemia??? or some other form of a out of control bleeding disorder? Thanks greatly for reading and trying to help. Any and all future suggestions and/or ideas will be greatly appreciated... I hate very much to watch any animal die... Off the subject of the grouper problem but dealing with the feeding of marine fish; is there any problem or reason not to give fish like lionfish, triggers, ect. , fresh water minnows or feeder goldfish. Is there a chance that they could spread any disease to the fish eating them??? It has for a long time been a question of mine, and I have never got a answer from anyone that I respected their knowledge, both thru their own experience as well as what is scientifically correct... Thanks again!
Doug

 

[beth]

Start treating the grouper with Maracyn Two for Saltwater Fish. Use double dose for the first day. Be sure that water quality in the QT is very good and well maintained. You want to maximize water circulation in the QT, without stressing the fish. Just before each re-dose of the Maracyn 2, you will do a water change, again, in such a way as not to stress the fish.
Keep the lights off in the QT, since light effects the potency of antibiotics. Leave some room lighting on during waking hours. Don't leave the fish in complete darkness. Have just a little bit of light filtering into the room where the QT is located during "bedtime". You can use aquarium lighting during feeding, if the fish starts to eat.
Make sure that there is a good place for the fish to hide in the QT. Lets see if he'll pull though.
Any chance of getting a picture?
Those live fish you mention have little nutritional value for marine fish. And, to further complicate matters, goldfish are believed to block the digestion of lionfish. Best to offer marine fish, marine foods. These types of aggressive fish thrive on a varied diet of fresh seafoods that you can mix up yourself.