Help for my seabae anenome

[jac761]

Help please - I bought a seabae anenome 7 days ago and it did very well for the first 4 days, but the last 2 days it has been pretty much shrunken up and today it was upside down and when i turned it over, they are very fine filaments coming out of its mouth as well as a kind of uneven mound where it's mouth should be, does that mean it has thrown up its intestines and is dead? My seabae clown is still swimming around it very close and trying to nudge it - there is no smell that i can detect yet. No ammonia, 8.2 ph, VHO lighting, my salinity is a little high - 1.026, i am doing a 10% water change today. This tank has been up and running since February and I started it with a seeded filter from my old tank - just transferred all the live sand and live rock and water to the new one. My mushroom coral, polyps, and fish are thriving and growing. This is like my 5th anenome. I have not had any luck in the past keeping anenomes alive and my clown always finds them within minutes of putting them in the tank and then he always takes shrimp, etc. to them multiple times. What am i doing wrong?

 

[dogpoor]

Sounds like it's a gonner

Sorry! Get it out of there. How long did you drip acclimate it? Are your nitrates, nitrites up?

 

[jac761]

Yes & No! My nitrites are within range, but my nitrates have always been high. I have never been able to get them down and my coral and fish seem to do just fine - I have a large purple tang, large copperband butterfly, large sweetlips, large betta, seabae clown, diamond goby, niger trigger, red hawk, and various crabs, snails, starfish, brittle starfish, and several urchins. Do you have any suggestions to get my nitrates down?? No one here seems to. Thanks for the quick answer. By the way -- is what i described, the anenome's intestines that i am seeing?

 

[spartan78]

How many gallons is the tank? Anything under a 125 would be way to small to sustain that amount of fish IMO.

 

[jmick]

A lot of people have trouble with anenomes because they really require pristine water and plenty of light. My questions are, what size tank do you have? How many watts of VHO? Do you skim? Also, if they keep dying why in the world do you continue to buy

 

[thomas712]

Ok first of all leave it alone, do not try moving it all around the tank, this will only cause it more stress. If it is at the bottom leave it there.
Sounds like you can see into the actinopharynx of the mouth and possibly through to the mesenterial filaments. Not good but doesn't mean he is a gonner yet. I've seen pics where you can see right though anemones from the mouth to the other side.
I can't really tell you what it wants right now.. It just could be gathering up strength for a move, reacting to something stressful in the tank, lighting adjustment, water chemistry or what. Just keep a close eye on him for now. If he gets to the point of looking like melting icecream then you'll have to remove him, but for now give him a chance and keep me posted.
VHO is not enough to keep a sebea alive long term.
One more thing, one of the natural preditors of anemones can be butterflyfish.
Get me a pic if you can.
Thomas

 

[jac761]

Ok, in answer to all the questions, my tank is an Eheim Wave - 72 gallons. When I say large fish - they are approx 3 to 4" long. I have 2 VHO bulbs - 38W each. My local dealer that sold me the tank said that i would be able to have pretty much anything I wanted with this lighting. Have I been misinformed? I am not planning on adding any more fish and will remove the larger ones as they grow more. The anenome is still where it was this afternoon - actually looks a little better - so I am leaving it alone per the instructions from Thomas712. I keep buying anenomes because I really want one for my clown fish. He is desperate for something to live in - even tries the mushrooms when there is not an anenome in the tank and really, this is only the 3rd one I have had. To keep answering questions - the filter is an Eheim Professional II and I do not have a protein skimmer, but am thinking of getting the surface extractor that Eheim sells. The main problem is this style tank will not support a normal skimmer and I have not found any other style that would work and Eheim insists that with this filter, I do not need one. The clown chases any fish away that comes near it and the butterfly doesn't seem the least bit interested in it. He is a really docile fish. Hope this answers all the questions. Thanks for all your advice. We will see what it looks like in the morning after a few hours with the salinity in the proper range.

 

[jac761]

Oh - what does IMO stand for? I am a novice and just learning.

 

[jmick]

Wow, couple of things. First, 76watts of light on a 72 gallon is not nearly enough for an anemone (you need almost 5 times what you have now). Your LFS did you a great disservice, that was terrible advice they gave you. Second, you really need to invest in a quality skimmer. If you want to keep an anemone, you really need to maintain high water quality and it’s very hard to do with out a good skimmer, especially with the number of fish you are currently housing.
I really think you need to ditch the anemone at this time. Do yourself a favor, invest in more light, and try a leather coral; it may host your clown. Also, be patient and please spend more time learning about the needs of the animals you want to keep and don’t put to much stock into what your lfs has to say.

 

[thomas712]

Originally Posted by jac761
Ok, in answer to all the questions, my tank is an Eheim Wave - 72 gallons. I have 2 VHO bulbs - 38W each. My local dealer that sold me the tank said that i would be able to have pretty much anything I wanted with this lighting. Have I been misinformed? .
Ouch, only 2 bulbs that equal 76 watts....You have been very misinformed. There is no way that wattage will sustain life for a sebae anemone. I would not even recommend it for the lesser light reacquiring Bubble Tip Anemones. You need to be more in the neighborhood of 300+ watts (VHO or PC) for even a BTA, and I would highly recommend Metal Halide for a sebae.
Sorry but my best advice is to take it back to your LFS. I firmly believe it will only die in your tank. Is it white?
IMO= In my opinion, IME= In my experience.
I'll give you a for instance, friend of mine, broomer5, had a 75 gallon tank and a sebae anemone, he wound up going with 940 watts of lights. 440 VHO and 500MH. Same as is on my 90 gallon tank now. He brought that anemone back from ill health to one very healthy specimen.
Thomas

 

[thomas712]

Here are some pics, (I seem to post these often) of broomer5s' sebae anemone. Same anemone before and months after.

 

[jac761]

I have contacted Eheim to verify the wattage in my tank. On the pictures above - is the top one the unhealthy speciman? Mine looked like the top one when i bought it. Maybe I am nuts, but I think the top one is prettier. Mine looks pretty much the same this morning, my clown is still trying to feed it, but not responsive. I will take a picture this afternoon and sent it if I can figure out how to do this. Thanks for all your help. Any suggestions on where to buy the kind of lighting I am going to need. Obviously, my LFS is not as informed as they should be.

 

[jac761]

Just got the e-mail from Eheim -- the lights are not even VHO and it is only 76W of light. No wonder!! It is amazing to me that I have kept anything alive. For my 72 gallon tank - 2 bulb capacity, can you be specific as to the lighting I should acquire given the fish I have. I would like to continue with the mushroom coral, maybe some sponge, and a leather or soft colt coral as additions to my the tank. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[thomas712]

Originally Posted by jac761
, can you be specific as to the lighting I should acquire given the fish I have.
Right the top pic is unhealthy, it has lost its zooxanthellae, the second pic is where it has regained its health.
Its not the light and fish, its the light and corals or animals like the cnidaria sebae anemone that you have that need a good amount of lighting.
I would like to continue with the mushroom coral, maybe some sponge, and a leather or soft colt coral as additions to my the tank.
My answer here depends on if you are going to keep this sebea or any other type of anemone. Let me know if that is what you intend to do.
Thomas

 

[jac761]

Yes - I definitely want to be able to keep at least one anenome, would not have to be a seabea because my clown doesn't seem to be particular at all - just wants something to nest in! I am looking for more color for my tank as well, so if there is an anenome that has more color when it is healthy would be desirable. I will definitely try to get you a picture of my sick guy as well as my tank for your input. I am so glad I found this message board. I have spent alot of money so far, but obviously not entirely in the right direction and I do not like killing things. I had a beautiful soft colt that just disappeared one week - and it had been quite large. Actually grew to more than 3x its original size under these lights, but then just kept shrinking after several months and then vanished. Was it the lights? And will the proper lighting for the anenome affect my fish? Thanks again. Joyce

 

[thomas712]

Here is a for instance: This example is VHO and equals 440 watts of lights. This should be able to keep say a Rose BTA. This would give you about 6 watts per gallon. I used the 46.5 inch bulb version as it fits most canopy rigs.
46.5" 4 Lamp VHO Retrofit Kit (w/ ARO Model 4L ballast)
Bulb1: URI Actinic White 50/50 VHO(+$23.50)
Bulb2: URI Super Actinic VHO(+$20.00)
Bulb3: URI Actinic White 50/50 VHO(+$23.50)
Bulb4: URI Super Actinic VHO(+$20.00)
Subtotal 256.00 Does not include shipping and handling
This is bulbs, fixture, ballast and all.
This is similar to the 440 watts that I have over my 90 gallon minus the 2 250watt MH bulbs that I use as well.
Now if you want to keep a sebea then I'd say go with a VHO/MH combo. Now we are talking more money.

 

[jac761]

Ok - that helps. I have also taken pictures, but have no idea how to send them. Can you help?

 

[thomas712]

Well there is a 2 bulb version that will only give you 220watts.
You need to resize the pics to no larger than 500x500 pixels and just upload them using the manage attachment feature.
If that is to much you can send them direct to me and I'll fix em.
birdsall12@chartermi.net

 

[jac761]

For future reference, where is the manage attachment feature. I have looked for it and cannot find it. I did send the pictures as an attachment direct to your e-mail.

 

[thomas712]

Well you can post a reply, when you see the button for submit, scroll down a bit farther uner additional options and look for the manage attachment button. I'm not home right now but will be soon.