help from the beginning

[ekid2]

I bought a 29 gal tank yesterday. I set it up, mixed the salt and started the filtration. The salesman sold me 10 lbs of sand (I don't think its live, because its just in a bag) and 20 lbs of crushed coral (I believe). In two days we are supposed to go back to the lfs and get some small mushrooms and low light anemone. We are supposed to place these in a bucket for 2 weeks with a filter (to detoxify or decontaminate?). After that we are supposed to put these in the tank and surround them with the sand then coral??? Or coral then sand??? This isn't making much sense to me, so please help. The salesman told me about this site, so I would imagine he is selling me what he believes will work.

 

[kdfrosty]

You salesman is full of it.
First off, i wouldnt mix sand and crushed coral. The CC will work its way to the top and that's all you'll say. Besides that it's kinda a gas trap and is hard(er) to maintain. Will require vacuuming. Personally I would go with a deep sand bed (DSB) of 4+ inches and then seed it with live sand from a hobbiests tank.
Do not add any livestock until your tank goes through the nitrogen cycle. you should familiarize yourself with this concept as it is EXTREMELY important to keeping marine aquaria successfully. to kick off your cycle you might consider dropping in a raw peeled cocktail shrimp and letting it completely decompose. DO NOT ADD ANYTHING UNTIL THE CYCLE IS COMPLETE.
"How do I know wehn the cycle's complete?" - Ammonia -> nitrites -> nitrates. that's the basicas of the cycle. you'll see an ammonia spike, followed by a rise in nitrites, then a rise in nitrates and a drop in the previous two. At this point you will want to do a 25% water change....remember to only use RO water to avoid future problems. Of course to do all of the above you will need a test kit.
You should have a well established tank before adding any corals at all, and a VERY well established tank before adding an anemone.
Hope that helps some. Dont be afraid to ask questions....There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who don't ask them.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by KDFrosty
You salesman is full of it.
First off, i wouldnt mix sand and crushed coral. The CC will work its way to the top and that's all you'll say. Besides that it's kinda a gas trap and is hard(er) to maintain. Will require vacuuming. Personally I would go with a deep sand bed (DSB) of 4+ inches and then seed it with live sand from a hobbiests tank.
Do not add any livestock until your tank goes through the nitrogen cycle. you should familiarize yourself with this concept as it is EXTREMELY important to keeping marine aquaria successfully. to kick off your cycle you might consider dropping in a raw peeled cocktail shrimp and letting it completely decompose. DO NOT ADD ANYTHING UNTIL THE CYCLE IS COMPLETE.
"How do I know wehn the cycle's complete?" - Ammonia -> nitrites -> nitrates. that's the basicas of the cycle. you'll see an ammonia spike, followed by a rise in nitrites, then a rise in nitrates and a drop in the previous two. At this point you will want to do a 25% water change....remember to only use RO water to avoid future problems. Of course to do all of the above you will need a test kit.
You should have a well established tank before adding any corals at all, and a VERY well established tank before adding an anemone.
Hope that helps some. Dont be afraid to ask questions....There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who don't ask them.
I agree with everything you've said except the 4+ inches of sandbed. There's another post recently on that. I have 2" in some area and 3" in other area and I have no problem with sandbed denitrifying the nitrate, I have nitrogen bubbles to prove it. IF you look up recent postings, you'll see what I'm talking about. :happyfish

 

[kdfrosty]

There are several articles out that suggest a SSB (<1") and a DSB (>4") is the only beneficial way to have a sandbed. I dont doubt that you are having success. How long has your tank been setup? :notsure:
The article I refer to is by Eric Borneman (a very reputable source), however I cannot remember the title. It also discusses the gimmick that is "miracle mud".
HTH

 

[ekid2]

I actually have 20lbs of live sand and the 10lbs of regular sand. Do you know why the mixed it like this? Why didn't they sale me 30lbs of live sand only?
The tank has been running for 24hrs and the salt level is where it should be. When should I add the sand? Should I put the live sand or other stuff in first?
The salesman said never put any coral, anemone, or live rock on top of the sand. Is this correct? He said to put it directly on the glass. Can you move the sand aside or do you just wait to put the sand in the tank?
Thanks for your help. I'm learning very slowly.

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by KDFrosty
There are several articles out that suggest a SSB (<1") and a DSB (>4") is the only beneficial way to have a sandbed. I dont doubt that you are having success. How long has your tank been setup? :notsure:
The article I refer to is by Eric Borneman (a very reputable source), however I cannot remember the title. It also discusses the gimmick that is "miracle mud".
HTH
It's been setup over a year. Only have base rocks and live rocks in there about 4 months. That started about 2 months later with nitrogen bubbles. :happyfish

 

[kdfrosty]

So you've read the article then?

 

[1journeyman]

We discussed the sand bed issue. Forgot who, but someone quoted an article that was talking about th studies of DSB and how in reality most of the bacteria works in the first inch of sand. It was an older article though (1980's) and I suspect more recent work has proven that study wrong. It just doesn't make sense to me that aerobic and anearobic bacteria can live side by side in your sand bed.
Mike knows his tank, so I'm not sure how he is doing it but I trust he is. There might be some other variable allowing for anearobic bacteria in his more shallow sand bed. Bornemann, Calfo and Fenner all seem to be in agreement about 4+ inches, however, so I'm going to stick with them and maintain my bed accordingly.
Now, to the poster's questions :happyfish
Your sales person is wrong with just about everything you stated they said. Do some research on this site, then go buy "A Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Fenner, and other books by referenced authors. It's really best if you read for yourself and ask questions based on what you have read. It will help you distinguish between a good salesman and a intelligent salesman.
Normally sand is cheaper than "live" sand. So people often buy just enough live sand to place over the top to "seed" their sand bed.
You shouldn't put live rock on top of the sand. Put your lowest level of rock down first, then put sand over it. That way your base to your upper live rock is stable. because it is placed on rock. Fish and inverts can otherwise burrow under your rock and casue a landslide.
Some corals and anemones need to be placed on a sand bed. That's where they are found in the wild...
Add the sand now. also, do a search on this forum for "cycling" your tank. The easiest way to cycle a tank is to either use uncured live rock (easily purchased online) or to throw a raw, cocktail shrimp into the tank to let it dissolve. Either way, the decomposition will start your ammonia cycle.
Anemones are delicate. A tank needs to be well established in order to keep them properly (most say 6+months). Two great books to get to aid you in purchases are :Michael's "Reef fishes, a handbook...) and the similar book (forgot author) for corals.
There is a pretty steep learning curve to this hobby (made the more difficult by anaware or unethical local fish stores) but one day you'll walk into your tank's room and suddenly go "Woah.. my tank looks great!"
Keep learning and keep asking questions!

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by KDFrosty
So you've read the article then?
Yea I read the article. But when my sandbed start burping out nitrogen gas when it's only 2-3" sandbed, I have to agree with that person about not having to have 4"+ sandbed. But each individual's situation is unique and depending on how you have it set up, etc. You get the same results by different methods. I feel I have a healthy tank by the way it's going. We haven't had any detectable nitrates for over 5 months since all this started. There's a bunch of worms in my sandbed and pods coming out of my a**

It really freaked me out this morning when the lights came on, I was going OMG look at all the maggots on the sandbed and the rocks. There's a bunch crawling all over the glass too. I'm thinking about getting something that would eat'em. There's enough to feed it for months. :joy:

 

[reefdweler]

Originally Posted by Mikeyjer
Yea I read the article. But when my sandbed start burping out nitrogen gas when it's only 2-3" sandbed, I have to agree with that person about not having to have 4"+ sandbed. But each individual's situation is unique and depending on how you have it set up, etc. You get the same results by different methods. I feel I have a healthy tank by the way it's going. We haven't had any detectable nitrates for over 5 months since all this started. There's a bunch of worms in my sandbed and pods coming out of my a**

It really freaked me out this morning when the lights came on, I was going OMG look at all the maggots on the sandbed and the rocks. There's a bunch crawling all over the glass too. I'm thinking about getting something that would eat'em. There's enough to feed it for months. :joy:
Can you post a pic of your tank and its sand bed?

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by reefdweler
Can you post a pic of your tank and its sand bed?
I could post a better picture next week, I took some with my camera phone a while back. The stuffs in it have changed, there's corals now. I'm getting my digital camera next week, it's shipped today and won't get it til Monday or Tuesday. I'll show the nitrogen bubbles within my sandbed from the front glass next week too, my phone camera won't do that good of a job taking it. Here's the pictures... :happyfish