Help me plan my Christmas tank, please?

[sueandherzoo]

Hi.
I'm a newbie to salt water - have only had my Eclipse 12-gallon set up for about 12 weeks now, but I am already hooked and want to expand on the hobby. Hubby is aware and prepared that Christmas this year is going to involve a BIG upgrade and everything that goes with it, but the funny thing is the more I read and the more I learn, the less I want to go with a HUGE sw tank. I really love the nano tanks, the ease of water changes, etc. and I really don't want to bother with the drilling, plumbing, sumps, fuge's, etc. that are pretty much necessary to do a big tank "right". So I was thinking of just going for a Red Sea Max 34 gallon for Christmas and turning it into a horse tank, but the more I read, the more I want to start with dwarf sesahorses. So therefore, a RSM 34 would be overkill. So NOW my thinking is to ask for TWO set ups for Christmas, the RSM 34 for corals and anemones and some fish and then ask for a dwarf seahorse set up. I'll use my existing 12 gallon as either a specimen tank (one small puffer maybe?)
So, my question is, what is the best "all in one" unit you would recommend for dwarf horses? I was thinking of a Biocube 14 but that almost seems like too much equipment for just horses... maybe overkill? Unless I can keep lots of corals with them, then the Biocube might be the way to go.
Your thoughts please? I really want to stick with the "all in one" systems . . . I'm not into the hardware part of this.
Thanks in advance!
Sue

 

[sueandherzoo]

No one? Not even Rykna? I think I'm hurt.
Sue

 

[shaunalynna]

Sue,

your still loved, don't feel sad I am sure it is just a busy day for everyone today! If you want dwarfs my suggestion would be do the biocube 8gal? I think it is there smallest. There expensive yes, but your all in one system that you want! As for the mods you may need not 100% sure there. I know sponge covers would be all I think you need. This someone else may want to answer for you. The 8gal would be small enough to be kept in a small area and asking for your big tank would also be a go

You can keep a few of the dwarfs in that tank!
I want to know what you decide and ya you know, I think I may do an 8gal myself now. I have to know what to do for it to be ponie ready though! I was going to make a 5gal or something cause I need small myself but 8gal may be the way! HaHa thanks you may have just solved my problem.
Lastly I agree with you as for systems go. I love the all in ones "nanos" verses big tanks and equipment. I am not in to all that either. There so simple to have and as you said fun!
P.S. Don't worry Rykna will be in to answer and solve the issue soon. We know she always has advice for us

-Shauna

 

[sueandherzoo]

Thanks, Shauna, I'm done pouting and licking my wounds now.
I thought about the 8-gallon biocube but if you look at the price difference the 14 is only slightly higher than the 8 so I figured go for the bigger one and give the little ponies more hitching posts and decor and stuff.
Glad you cleared your thoughts about what to do while helping me - it's therapeutic to "think outloud" on here, isn't it?

Since I'm pretty sold on the RSM 34 for my "primary" tank, (although I'm now hearing they are releasing their new 66 gallon version) and I know I don't want my existing 12 gallon Eclipse to be my pony tank (has a biowheel and I hear that's not great for horses?) my only question is what is the BEST all in one set up I can provide for the little guys?
I'm sure you're right about it being a busy day -- I'll try to be patient. (NOT one of my virtues)
Sue

 

[matt b]

Why not use the eclipse for dwarfs? And IMO nanos are such a waste. I mean if you want to spend more money and get less then nanos are for you. But what you could do is... Get a DT that is reef ready. Get the overflow kits. Take the bulkheads to homedepot and get what you need and do it all in tubing so you dont have to glue PVC and worry about leaks. Then find someone that build a canopy if you cant and then retro fit lights. And for the sump you can make one or get a pre made one.

 

[novahobbies]

Sue: The biowheel on eclipse tanks is an inadequate filter by itself.....but that shouldn't stop you from using it. The eclipse filters are fine for mechanical and chemical separation....in other words, the blue floss and carbon pad they have in them. You just need to supplement that little biowheel with live rock in the tank. Figure a pound per gallon or more if you can swing it. I have seen 15 lbs of live rock in the 12 gallon eclipse tanks before that still had plenty of room for swimming. Just add a small powerhead or two with inlets covered with a foam prefilter. I don't know if you can fit a small biocube's protein skimmer in there, but you should if you can.
You should definitely only do dwarf ponies in the eclipse....large horses will NEVER be happy in an eclipse. Happy horsing!

 

[novahobbies]

Oh, and I fully agree with Matt on the subject of big tanks....you'll never know how much you love it until you get one! And the price of a large tank isn't all that much more than some of those larger all-in-one setups, so it kind of balances out. Besides, does your hubby like this hobby also? If so, remember the way a lot of us guys think: "bigger is better"

 

[matt b]

Originally Posted by novahobbies
http:///forum/post/2789407
Oh, and I fully agree with Matt on the subject of big tanks....you'll never know how much you love it until you get one! And the price of a large tank isn't all that much more than some of those larger all-in-one setups, so it kind of balances out. Besides, does your hubby like this hobby also? If so, remember the way a lot of us guys think: "bigger is better"

I was not even saying a big tank. I would rather have a normal 29g with a sump then a 29g biocube. Just so much better.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Thanks for the replies. I will reconsider getting a bigger tank for my primary DT but I really don't know enough or want to bother much with the hardware part of this hobby. Hubby is only interested to the extent of glancing in the tank once in a while and I know he would do whatever I needed him to as far as customizing and building, etc. but it probably wouldn't be an enjoyable hobby (he already has too many of his own) but something he'd try to find time to do just to help me out. Maybe I'll reconsider the 66 gallon Red Sea Max but I'm not sure it's even available yet, nor have I seen a price on them.
I don't really want to use the Eclipse for the ponies.... I've got it pretty well aquascaped with 12 lbs. of live rock and 5 lbs. of base rock so I don't want to re-aquascape it to make it more appropriate for ponies.... I'd rather start fresh. Besides, the live rock has all kinds of hitchhikers in it and I don't know if some of them might be harmful to the ponies. And I have a pistol shrimp in there that I'd never be able to get out without totally removing everything so I'd rather just leave that tank the way it is and get maybe one small puffer for that tank.
Since dwarf ponies seem to so undemanding and simple to please I'd like a brand new tank set up specifically for them. Fresh,clean and new.
Maybe a biocube is overkill - perhaps just a 10 gallon tank with filter and heater?
Sue

 

[novahobbies]

I think you're right about the eclipse: if there are mystery critters on the live rock, pistol shrimp inluded, it would be better to start from scratch. I hope Rykna chimes in soon about the ponies.....she's the reigning queen of dwarf seahorse keeping here. I honestly have no idea whether a 10 gallon standard setup would be better or worse than the 8 gallon biocube....although as you've already said, the biocube is great because it's so all-inclusive!
I found some more info on your red sea max 66 gallon setup: The projected availability is still sometime in November to December, and expected price is $1499.00 or thereabouts. (See? For that price you could so easily do a 110 gallon tank!) But the equippment looks good, and it comes with 234 watts of t5 lighting, so it's pretty good for most corals. Also, from what I can tell, that price also includes the stand, so.....not bad....

I can't post the link, but if you pm me your email address I'll send it to you if you can't find the info pdf sheet.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/2788722
No one? Not even Rykna? I think I'm hurt.
Sue
Sorry I'm late

I've been out rescuing my husband's tank, my neighbor's tank, and my daughter came home from school early today with a fever of 103.
So....where would you like to start

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/2789514
Since dwarf ponies seem to so undemanding and simple to please I'd like a brand new tank set up specifically for them. Fresh,clean and new.
Maybe a biocube is overkill - perhaps just a 10 gallon tank with filter and heater?
Sue
Ponies are IMHO a lot easier to care for health and nutrition wise, however, the time consuming part is the brine shrimp hatchery.
After a huge aiptasia attack, I boiled and bleached every last LR and all my LS. I've been restocking it with cultured pods to prevent further infestation.
Ponies need a tank all to themselves. The only live critters in my pony tank, besides the ponies, are the pods and the cultured LS.
This was my first tank, a 15g high:

I also tried a 10g with live gorgonians...one of the very few corals you can keep with ponies.

This is a 5.5g set up

This was one of my favorite 15g setups"

Pony tanks can be as simple or elaborate as you want. The most important part is to cover all intake flows. After trying many sizes of tanks, the larger the tank is the harder it is for your ponies to find their tiny prey. I prefer my 15g. I'm currently setting up a 38g sump and a 15g DT.
And actually tank size can be deceiving. The larger the tank, the easier it is to keep constant water quality, the smaller the tank the harder it is to keep constant water quality. Once my 90g reef tank was established it only needed one 20% water change a month. The 15g pony tank needs a 5-10% water change at least once a week.
With that said~what equipment do you have available for your pony tank? I'll be very happy to help you setup your tank

You could have one running before the trick-or-treaters come knocking if you like.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Originally Posted by Rykna
http:///forum/post/2789777
With that said~what equipment do you have available for your pony tank? I'll be very happy to help you setup your tank

You could have one running before the trick-or-treaters come knocking if you like.
Darn you, Rykna . . . so much for the mature, adult "patience" I was trying to show by calling this a Christmas gift. I want to start NOW! Perhaps I will knock the pony tank off my Christmas Wish List and just dip into my "slush fund" and buy a set up myself, SOON! That would certainly keep me amused until Christmas when I can then ask for the RSM 34 or 65 gallon. No sense in getting two tanks at Christmas - I should spread the joy over a few months.

OK, first of all, thank you for being here and offering to help me through this. I am in all of your hands and will buy and do whatever you suggest. All of you horse owners just need to decide what I need and I am at your service.

You tell me... do I want to buy a Biocube for the horses or is that overkill? Should I just buy a plain small tank with a basic filter and heater? If ponies don't require the special lighting and the quality of product that the Biocube offers then I'll buy a plain system and save the money for the ponies.
You tell me: what should I go buy? don't forget to add what types of plants (real or plastic) and what type of sand, hitching posts, etc. I'm thinking you can set me up with a real nice home for some ponies for $300 or less, right?
Fire away - it's the weekend and I'm ready to shop! (yes, I realize the tank will have to run empty for a while so don't worry - I'm not ordering any ponies yet).
Thanks everyone!!!!!! I'm so psyched! (jump in here, too, Rick - I see from your profile you're an equine lover?)
Sue

 

[rykna]

Before we continue I'd like to thank Bronco300.
Luke is the original Pony King. He is the one who
got me set up with ponies. Thank you Luke.
Okay Seahorse lovers...hang onto your fins...cause we're setting up a pony tank!!!
Make a list and check it twice....

Food items:
Decapsulated Artemia (shell-less brine shrimp eggs)

Brine shrimp Hatchery
Hatchery set up:

15g High tank.
20 inch light fixture, light is really only need for viewing purposes here's some suggestions:
1.)

2.)

If I had the cash I'd purchase #2

 

[rykna]

...

Filtration:
My #1 favorite is the AquaClear 110

~You must cover all intake flows
I'm setting up a 38g sump and connecting the 15g DT(Display Tank) with this:

My favorites return flow is spray bars:

To buffer the return flow I've designed these covers:

I also use these to cover the heater so no little tails get burned.
A pony tank can be set up uncycled or "sterile" as I call it. Do not use LR or LS. Both of these will introduce hydroids into your pony tank which spells doom. I have been told, however, if you do get LR and LS turn you tank temp up to bake the hydroids. Baking temp: 93 and 95 degrees. The only thing that should be in the tank is the LR and LS. After 3-5 days turn the temp back to normal and do a water change.
Which ever you choose, the pony tank needs a 5-10% water change weekly.
Okay let's see here....

What would you like to know next?

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/2790121
Darn you, Rykna . . . so much for the mature, adult "patience" I was trying to show by calling this a Christmas gift. I want to start NOW!
Thanks everyone!!!!!! I'm so psyched! (jump in here, too, Rick - I see from your profile you're an equine lover?)
Sue
I am a patient, mature, adult Seahorse Addict....aah...Hobbist...

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/2790121
OK, first of all, thank you for being here and offering to help me through this. I am in all of your hands and will buy and do whatever you suggest. All of you horse owners just need to decide what I need and I am at your service.

Sue
That's what we're all here for

-and since you're buying whatever we suggest...I have a few items on my pony tank christmas list....

jk

 

[sueandherzoo]

OK, I give up. I've typed replies three times now trying to use the "multi quote" feature and after writing a short novel each time when I click "preview post" the quotes never worked. Sorry, I'm inserting text below without the appropriate verbage from Rykna to go along with it. You posted the hatchery info first, so does that mean I need to get that going right away or can I set up the tank first and buy them food in the beginning and THEN set up the hatchery? (I'm a little eager, can you tell?

Filtration:
My #1 favorite is the AquaClear 110
Will look for that one when I get to the LFS. So since I'm looking for a 15 gallon high, should I assume that it's 20 inches wide since you suggested a 20" light? And I guess the light is only for ME, not for the horses?
I'm setting up a 38g sump and connecting the 15g DT(Display Tank) with this:
My favorites return flow is spray bars:
I'm not sure what spray bars are. Is that a common item at the LFS?
To buffer the return flow I've designed these covers:

I also use these to cover the heater so no little tails get burned.
What are the covers made from? Again, something I can find locally or do I order online?
A pony tank can be set up uncycled or "sterile" as I call it. Do not use LR or LS. Both of these will introduce hydroids into your pony tank which spells doom. I have been told, however, if you do get LR and LS turn you tank temp up to bake the hydroids. Baking temp: 93 and 95 degrees. The only thing that should be in the tank is the LR and LS. After 3-5 days turn the temp back to normal and do a water change.
Which ever you choose, the pony tank needs a 5-10% water change weekly.
Okay let's see here....

OK, no LR or LS in this tank. (that saves a bundle!) What do I want to get them for amusement and hitching? Plastic decorations? Fake plants? Real plants? Base rock? And if I'm not using LR or LS then I guess I'm not waiting for the tank to cycle. How do you know when the water is ready for ponies? What temperature do they like? What salinity?
What would you like to know next?
Any particular heater you suggest or just something that they won't hitch to and burn on?
Originally Posted by Rykna
http:///forum/post/2790205
I am a patient, mature, adult Seahorse Addict....aah...Hobbist...

OK, if that's your story and you're sticking with it, then I concur. Adult Seahorse HOBBYIST.

Originally Posted by Rykna
http:///forum/post/2790207
That's what we're all here for

-and since you're buying whatever we suggest...I have a few items on my pony tank christmas list....

jk
Go ahead and show me what's on your list. I'm sure if you want it then it's going to be something I'll want eventually too!
I'm too excited!

 

[novahobbies]

Originally Posted by SueAndHerZoo
http:///forum/post/2790121
Thanks everyone!!!!!! I'm so psyched! (jump in here, too, Rick - I see from your profile you're an equine lover?)
Sue
Hey, I'm just along for the ride here...I am a pony virgin (and THAT didn't sound right!) so I'm very interested in how Rykna sets her tanks up. But I have a couple questions....
Being a

[hr]
liverock supporter, it's always a little shocking to hear someone say, "No Live Rock." I understand that hydroids are a threat to these tiny ponies, and that your water change schedule is aggressive, but it's still a hard concept to wrap my head around. What about dray tufa rock, seeded with activated bacteria? That would fill your need for a "sterile" live rock, while helping fitration....no?
I too want to know what that stuff is you have covering intakes and spray bars...is that "plastic canvas" for needlework?
Sue, Ryknas comments about spray bars and overflows are just examples from her tank I think....not what you want to do. It's all stuff you'd use to plumb a sump, which I remember you said you didn't want to do. (Except you know you want to buy the big tank...the biiiig taaaank......)
Even though everything's sterile, I'm pretty sure you'll still need to cycle the tank to let your bacteria colonies build up on the filter!
Darnit, Rykna, now you got me wishin' I had the cash to go out and set one of these up also! I've been drawing up plans for that little 2.5 gallon cylinder tank we were talking about before.....ever hear of a 2.5 gallon tank with a sump??? I think I need to stop eyeing my wife's beta tank and just go buy one myself.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Originally Posted by novahobbies
http:///forum/post/2790510
Hey, I'm just along for the ride here...I am a pony virgin (and THAT didn't sound right!) so I'm very interested in how Rykna sets her tanks up. But I have a couple questions....
Being a

[hr]
liverock supporter, it's always a little shocking to hear someone say, "No Live Rock." I understand that hydroids are a threat to these tiny ponies, and that your water change schedule is aggressive, but it's still a hard concept to wrap my head around. What about dray tufa rock, seeded with activated bacteria? That would fill your need for a "sterile" live rock, while helping fitration....no?
I too want to know what that stuff is you have covering intakes and spray bars...is that "plastic canvas" for needlework?
Sue, Ryknas comments about spray bars and overflows are just examples from her tank I think....not what you want to do. It's all stuff you'd use to plumb a sump, which I remember you said you didn't want to do. (Except you know you want to buy the big tank...the biiiig taaaank......)
Even though everything's sterile, I'm pretty sure you'll still need to cycle the tank to let your bacteria colonies build up on the filter!
Darnit, Rykna, now you got me wishin' I had the cash to go out and set one of these up also! I've been drawing up plans for that little 2.5 gallon cylinder tank we were talking about before.....ever hear of a 2.5 gallon tank with a sump??? I think I need to stop eyeing my wife's beta tank and just go buy one myself.
Hello Fellow Pony Virgin. (may not sound right but sure is funny!)

I hope you're right about the plumbing part not applying to me unless I do a sump because she really lost me there. And about the big tank . . . are you in Sales? If not, you SHOULD be!
Good point about needing to grow bacteria. I should add some liquid bacteria to my shopping list to jump start it.
Sounds like you need to start a Christmas Wish List, Rick!