Help, my puffer has ich that won't go away after treatment of 'kick ich' plus cloudy

[af330i]

I have a fairly new tank that has completed it's cycle about 6 to 7 weeks old
65 gallons
ammonia -0-
nitrite .25 to .5 (just went up to this amount i nthe last week)
Nitrate 20
Salinity 1.021 to 1.022
temp 78-80 - I had lowered to to 78 once and my fish freaked out
I have the set up with a pre filter on the side of the tank going down to a dry/wet withthe bio balls which is ina sump which then heats the water (if needed) and pumps it back up to the tank.
In the tank from day 1 that has survived is:
1 - porcupine puffer
1 - yellow tang
1 - damsel domino
1 - blue with yellow tail damsel
1 - Percula clown
2 weeks later added
1 - fish that is small and skinny half yellow and half purple
1 - damsel (forgot which kind but it's small and blue)
1 - Percula Clown (small)
2- snails
I added 4 days ago
1 - Koran Angel
1 -

[hr]
trigger
Yesterday added
1 - dragon Goby to keep tank clean
Here is the deal ... My puffer got ich about 1 1/2 weeks ago, at the time I had live shrimp in the tank but he has since eaten them,. Anyway the store gave me kick ich. At first the ich was minor, mostly on his fins but then it got worse and is on his eyes and his eyes look a little cloudy and he seems to be breathing a little harder then he used to and he sits at the bottom of the tank with his mouth open.
I thought the ich had cleared up a lot and the yellow tang got it a little bit buit seems to have cleared up.
Now the Koran Angel since i introduced him to the tank is losing his color and now looks to have ich on his fins. I have kept the treatment up but now the first bottle of kick ich is gone so I need to go to the pet store to either get the same stuff or possible something else ...
I really need some advice ... to top it off my tank is a little cloudy yet my readins seem to be ok ...
I have a portien skimmer but haven't hooked it up yet and the kick ich medicine says not to hook it up while treating the fish.
Thanks for any help you can offer ... sorry the post is so long !!!

 

[who dey]

too many fish for the 65 gallon. it is a breeding grounds for stress adn ich. lower your bioload and quaranteen all fish in qt tank and treat according to beths sticky threads at the top of this forum

 

[oreo12]

The folks on here don't like kick ich. I just used it the ich was ther untill the last treatment 2 days after the last treatment on day 15 no more ich. I added 1 more treatment just to be safe been 2 weeks no ich. I have yellow tang huma triger firefish and convict bleeny. the convict bleeny looked real bad until day 15 then his eyes cleared up and started to improve he is back to diging up the sand bed and acts happy as can be. How long have you been using the kick ich? Have you done the hole 14 day treatment? Most people give up to soon so the kick ich won't work. This was my first ich breack out in the 12 years i have had my set up. But it was in my new tank. I actulay stared 20 years ago but gave it up for a while do to lack of funds. but 12 years ago my wife got me a 29 gal and I sat it up with salt and have had it since. Found a good deal on a large tank and talked her into leting me put it up as well. Have not been able to talk her into the 200 gal yet though. They recomnd hypo on here for your ich but I did not have the time or spare tank for that. So that is why I tried the kick ich. wish you well hope this helped .

 

[beth]

Wow, you really overloaded that tank way to quickly and with way too many fish. With that size tank, which is on the small side for marine, you absolutely can not add more than one fish at a time, unless they are very small fish.

 

[tjake68]

two many fish to fast i did the same thing and had the same problem and hypo was he only way i got rid of ich kick ich is like all other meds its hit and miss sometimes they work sometimes they dont i stopped using meds they cloud your water and mostly ont work if there was one that worked really worked everyone in this hobby would use it but ther is nothing that works except copper hyposalinity or removing all your fish for 4 weeks i have a 65 gallon with all dwarf fish you have to many fish your bioload is to much you will need super filltration your water might be cloudy because of a bacterria bloom witch will clear up in a few weeks by itsself if your tank is newlly setup hate u give u bad news but you have to decide what to keep and restock my opinion keep triggers there super strong and rarley get bich good luck

 

[oreo12]

hum still no ich after using kick ich O well do it the hard way.

 

[scubadoo]

Overcorwding can lead to disease if disease is present in the system.
There is nothing contained in Kick Ich that is documetned to be effective against marine ich. It is always best to use proven documented effective methods when treating for disease......as time is not a luxury you have
The only thing kick ick will kick is the money right out of your wallet. Most recognized names in this hobby do not recommend or endorse kick ich or any other so-called reef safe products.
Many hobbyists base the success of the so-called miracle cures on coorelations which have little or no basis in proven science. Ther are NO=ZERO documented scientific study that I am aware of where thse products have been proven as an effective treatment against marine ich.
I suggest you thin the herd. The fact you used an entire bottle of Kick ICh and your fish still show signs of the disease should tell you something. With ich you will see it come and go as the cycle rolls on.
Since you have such a large amount of fish I would take some back to the lfs. The mandarin needs a high population of pods and at least 100 pounds of mature live rock to sustain the pod population.
I would hypo the system after removing the inverts and thinning the herd...or moving the fish to a large QT and treat with hypo.
If you've already purchsed more kick ich flush it down the toilet.
If you question my opinion simply call or send an email to the producers of Kick Ich. Ask them to forward their studies to you that supports their claim. If you hear from them please let me know.
JMO

 

[oreo12]

Hum I had ich rael bad back in april 05 used the kick ich and have not seen any ich since. Scuba Doo have you ever tried it? If not shut up. Dont talk about stuff you have no glue about. I have used it and will again you must remove the carbon and turn off skimmer for it to work put it in on the schedule on the bottel and the ich goes away. It is a shame that people like you post on here maybe just saying sorry the kick ich did not work for you it might have if you had the right number and size fish in your tank maybe now is the time to set up a hypo tank not just coming on here and saying the stuff never works because you are dead wrong it worked for me and I will tell everyone it worked for me try it first it is defently easeir than water cahnges in a hospital tank.

 

[scubadoo]

I am simply relaying fact based on known, documented and proven studies. Also, if you do enough reading you will find many known experienced hobbyists such a sBob Fenner, Anthony Calfo, etc, that do not recommend these products.
You are entitled to you opinion. If anyone beleives this stuff works by all means use it.
I suggest you do sme resarch on the topic and you will find that my opinion is far form the minority view.
You can either consider, discount or ignore it. I do not beleive I told you to shut-up.
I simply offered my view/opinion.
However, if you have evidence as to the ieffective ingredient(s) along with the proven studies that support the producers claims I will gladly listen.
You have to understnad the disease and what can cause an outbreak if the disease is present in the system.
The orignal poster can ignore my opinion. That is what this forum is all about....posting opinions based expoerience and fact.
You posted your experience and I posted the scientific facts.
All opinions should be welcomed and I welcome plus appreciate yours.
Like I stated, no need to take my word/opinion...contact the manufacturer and ask them for their studies which support their claims.
If these products were proven effective all the veterans, advanced hobbyists and recognized experts would endorse them. Do some reaserch regarding recognized names and see what you find.
best of luck

 

[scubadoo]

The following is known and proven science:
The only addditive proven to be effective against marine ich is copper...known documented and proven. Besides causing internal damge to many fish, it is also dealdy to all inverts. Following this logic and based on known and proven studies, how can one additive kill one invert marine ich and leave all otherrs alone? Where is the study that documents one addtive can kill one invert and leave all others alone?
Please do not post I have no clues. Simply bring the clues here if you have them or can find them.
I do not consider coorelations that cannot be supported by study, fact and is not a mainstream recommended mode of treatment.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by oreo12
It is a shame that people like you post on here maybe just saying sorry the kick ich did not work for you it might have if you had the right number and size fish in your tank .
I can assure you I have the appropriate bio-load in all three of my closed marine systems based on the species and filtration installed on same.
I am unaware of any studies or manufacturer recommendation that Kick Ick will only be effective if a certain bio-load is maintained. Since you beleive it works, what is the tolerance level where the Kick Ich ceases to be effective? How is this calculated and what is the recommended level by the maufacturer? You have stated that fish size and numbers matter.

 

[oreo12]

Ok so you have never tried it. then please shut up I don't care what your so called experts think. I have used it. It has worked for me both times I have needed it I do not have space for a qt tank so when I buy a fish it goes in if it has ich it will show up and can take 3 weeks to be noticable. For one thing ich is not a disease it is a paracite. You know a bug that gets on a fish drops off multiplies then attaches to the fish again it keeps repiting this untill it is so thick that it drives the fish so nuts it won't eat gets so stresed out it dies. I am done replying to you on this subject you are a lost cause. Just keep reading your books don't bother trying things for yourself you might find out you cant always belive what you read. I read somewhere Hillary Clinton is the anti Crist it must be true I read it.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by oreo12
Ok so you have never tried it. then please shut up I don't care what your so called experts think. I have used it. It has worked for me both times I have needed it I do not have space for a qt tank so when I buy a fish it goes in if it has ich it will show up and can take 3 weeks to be noticable. For one thing ich is not a disease it is a paracite. You know a bug that gets on a fish drops off multiplies then attaches to the fish again it keeps repiting this untill it is so thick that it drives the fish so nuts it won't eat gets so stresed out it dies. I am done replying to you on this subject you are a lost cause. Just keep reading your books don't bother trying things for yourself you might find out you cant always belive what you read. I read somewhere Hillary Clinton is the anti Crist it must be true I read it.
Marine ich is defined as a disease. You have much to learn regarding the hobby. I can assure you I am no lost cause...but thanks for trying to save me.
Best of luck

 

[jds31788]

lfs says every book u read will tell u to keep your gravity at 1.022-1.024. they told me to keep mine at 1.024-1.026. they do the same for their tanks. though i am just a beginner at this hobby and i too lack a QT, my lfs said something to me about an easy way to treat the fish before u add it to the tank.something about a few hoses and a bucket along with some treatment solution (they treat thier fish this way) i dont remember exactly but ill try to find out. i think im gonna try it when im ready for fish again. or u could ask your lfs. i dont have the room nor the $$ to keep a QT. (most people dont)
AF330i: what ever happened to your fish??

 

[sankysyuck]

Kick Ick is a very poor choice in treating your fish with ick. For one, it only supposedly kills Ick in it's free-floating stage, and even when used isnt that effective.
I have actually used this product and have found that it works to a very limited extent, basically you would have to use it in conjunction with something else, but don't expect it to completely eradicate ick, it won't.
Also, like Scubadoo stated above, the advanced hobbysits do not reccomend it (and I would listen to them, they know what there talking about) .
The LFS that I work at actually just ordered some of this product and I yelled at the owner for doing so. It's a waste of money

 

[lion_crazz]

I have also used the product, and like stated, it works on a limited basis.
Oreo, you should take your comments and advice elsewhere because they are very erroneous. Also, please learn how to use punctuation and spell your words correctly. It makes it easier for people to read your bad advice if they can understand what you are saying. Like the fact that Scuba actually does have a clue (not glue) of what he is talking about. I thought I was only person you have a problem with, but you evidently have a problem with anyone who knows more than you do. Scuba knows exactly what he is talking about, so you have no right to tell him to shut up, just like you had no right to tell me to get a life.
And please, ich is absolutely a disease, not a practice.

And don't start with your fleas analogy again. This is a fish forum.

 

[stsweene]

Originally Posted by SankysYuck
Also, like Scubadoo stated above, the advanced hobbysits do not reccomend it (and I would listen to them, they know what there talking about) .
haha -- you said hobbysits
Of course they dont, by the time you get to be an advanced hobbiest Im sure youve tried everything in the book at least once or twice, and what it all comes down to is never putting to many fish in a tank that cant hold them.
Honestly, you think taking a tang, or any other fish for that matter, out of the ocean... millions of gallons, and putting him in your xxx gallon isnt going to stress it out. Every fish is stressed out, you would need 1,000's of gallons and 1,000's of lbs of rock for any fish to feel safe. Think about what the fish go through when the are bagged and shipped, all of them multiple times before they cross your door. And some people wonder why certain fish just wont live in the home aquarium... get real.
If the chemicals work, then go for it... Who wants to put all their fish in a QT for 6-8 weeks...then what if the next fish you get , even after being QT'd, brings ich back to your display tank, so QT them all for another 2 months, so out of 5 months youve had fish in your display for maybe 4 weeks... that doesnt seem worth it to me.
Hey I have fish, I have turtles... none of them are happy Im sure, but this is what we do....

 

[nemo's mom]

I'm new to this hobby and my LFS sold me Kick Ich. I did the full treatment and the fish that had visible spots appeared better. I walked in one morning and my 2 clowns were so covered in Ich suddenly that they died within 24 hrs. This came out of no where. I since donated my $30 bottle of Kick Ich. I set up a QT Tank and did hypo and my other fish are doing great. I have since moved them to the main tank and noticed some white spots....I came back to this forum and thanks to some awesome people figured out the cause for the stress which was not enough flow. I added 2 powerheads and started feeding garlic....my fish have regained their color and are doing great.
The person that started this threat definitly has a WAY overcrowded tank. I heard 1 fish per 10 gallon altough one of my books suggested 1 inch of fish per every 4 gallons but I think better safe than sorry...If you have the time or budget you could set up a second tank. I wish you good luck!!!